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**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** It's interesting, even with parenting, in how we tend to do this a lot with kids... Thinking about kids who wake up in the middle of the night, like "I'm afraid of the dark." "There's nothing to be afraid of. You shouldn't be afraid." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. So you wanna diminish their fear, and almost make it not real. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Well, and the crazy part, ironically, is that you're telling them that their perception, their internal world isn't real. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, and that's gotta be -- I mean, especially in the kids' place, where they're still discovering... They don't have experience, like we do, the wisdom we do, of many years or several decades. They're still learning about their environment, and even themselves. And truly, what is real and what's n... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[11:54\] Right, and -- I mean, it's dark, and shadows are real... And our brains can assimilate light and dark into a pattern that looks like a monster. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yes. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** In what way don't we all have our own sort of shading that creates monsters? So I might be apt to see a monster, ironically, in my world, or (God forbid) in another person... Not because the other person is that, but because that's how their brain put together the information. |
When we talk about healthy or unhealthy adaptive or maladaptive things in relationship, this way of communicating is really significant... Because it happens in certain families where things are more covert. So I won't say somebody -- let's take for example drinking behaviors; there's a range of what is sort of social ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. So they question themselves... They almost feel crazy, like "Wow, so what I'm feeling isn't true. So all these things I thought were true are not true", at least in that split moment, and they begin to think almost like they think they're crazy... Or question their mindset even. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. So it actually cultivates this undercurrent of distrust in themselves, or in yourself. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Wow... And how terrible is it to not trust yourself...? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. I will actually use the terminology of when people talk about anxiety in self-doubt. I feel like I live in a land of Swiss cheese, where I don't know when or where the hole is gonna come, I just know I'm gonna fall. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Oh, boy... \[laughs\] Yeah, that's paralyzing too, to feel like "Well, I always make the wrong choice. I can't trust my choices." So you have somebody that can't take a positive, trustworthy step forward in true life, and potentially just their emotions and relationships, because they're so paralyze... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. When you think about acquiring a skill... If I were to ask you, "Adam, what skill do you think that you have practiced well, that you have a lot of confidence in, that you can go into that lane without any sort of effort or consideration?", anything come to mind? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I think respect. I think I practice respect quite well. I like to consider where someone's at, understand what their concerns are, and then that evolves into an apathetic position... So I think I try really hard to \[unintelligible 00:15:26.18\] I'm not always good at it, but I'm definitely trying t... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Do you think that there were things throughout your life, be it relational experiences or events that happened wherein maybe you totally misstepped and you didn't get it right, that helped you learn that? Or do you have any hypotheses as it relates to how you were able to cultivate respect... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I haven't had a half hour to mull on this and think about it, but I would say that - like with anything for me or anyone else - I've learned through trial and error, or by doing, or by in many ways failing... I'm sure I've failed many times in my life to respect someone else, which helped me underst... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[16:14\] Sure. So re-learning, and going "I thought that this was okay, but maybe this doesn't work very well when I do it this way...", and really that's what I want people to take away, is that all of these things that we talk about are skills that we can acquire over time, and not ever... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, that's not the truth. It's easy to assume that, and it makes sense to assume it, because you assume because someone's 30 they should be in a 30-year-old's mindset... However, their experiences in life, trauma etc. and you mentioned loss earlier, geez... Losing a loved one or parents truly chan... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. I mean, in the same way we can look at how kids grow as based on their environments. Some kids -- I mean, you can talk to ten different parents about their expectations of their kids and what things they ought to be doing at that age, and some parents are perfectly settled about let... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I like this idea, for those listening thinking "Wow, I can actually change my position on empathy. I can get better at being empathetic." I like that, because that gives me hope that people who have difficulty with compassion, respect or empathy, that they realize that it takes practice, and that th... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Most certainly. And I do wanna input one little caveat, because I don't want people to fall on the other far end of the spectrum and then go "Oh, I ONLY need to be considerate of others and not myself." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Oh, boy... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Because that can happen, too. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, there's definitely people who forget about themselves, basically. Self-care, all the necessary things to live healthily, or have a healthy brain perspective... Which is why I love doing this show with you, because I've realized that our brain is the most important; without it, we wouldn't be h... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** And it's interesting, because we might actually have a certain level of awareness or skill, and then something else will happen and then we go "Oh, man... Shoot, I thought I was a lot further along, or far more equipped..." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** "...and I'm not!" |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right...? So it's like, I can know how valuable sleep is. That if I want to do better with myself and with others, that probably sleep should be in my top three. But I'm like "No, I can just --" I mean, I don't know if it's just my individual thing, being a mom, being in the field I'm in o... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[20:29\] Yeah. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** I think about it in terms of our limits. We want to infer that because I've done something at one point in time, I should be able to do that. Take, for example, staying up late, pulling all-nighters when you're in college or grad school, or doing whatever project startup etc. You can go fu... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. There are times when -- so this is my rationale with it; I've done this a couple times, meaning I've pushed the boundary and lacked the empathy and compassion for myself to do better self-care... In seasons. So I say to someone in that kind of moment, if you're encountering this notion of pus... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right, that's spot on. I can think back when I was in my first semester of graduate school... I think about it like allocating. We wanna allocate our energy, and that really starts with the respect over "What am I putting on my plate and what are the implications of those things I'm doing?... |
I thought I could just keep running as I used to once upon a time run. But when you start taking the pieces apart and going "Oh, you mean I have to shift gears, because the incline--" Just like a vehicle - if it's pulling more weight, do I stay in the same gear, or do I downshift, so that I can actually utilize more to... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** And once again, who's the same? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I'll throw one more analogy in there, just because I'm a mountain-biker... And when you shift a mountain-bike -- or just any bike, I suppose, if you have fears... It's difficult to shift under load. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Okay... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So if you have a heavy weight on you, or if you're pushing forward on the pedals and you try to shift up or down, you generally should let off the push in the pedal, just slightly enough to allow the gear to shift. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Oh, so it would be like you have some compassion for the struggle. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. That's a mechanical compassion. I love it. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right?! |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. You have to ease off of it a little bit. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[24:06\] Right. So if we're practicing thinking of these concepts in a system, be it with others or with ourselves, don't all parts count? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** All the time. And as one thing shifts, I have to also then shift or reallocate... Which is interesting, because ironically, that also poses another challenge, like we talked about previously with habits. Because we wanna automate as much as we can, because it takes less energy. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's right. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** But I have to recognize that "Oh, I'm practicing doing a new skill, and so I have to sort of change up how I do it." Another example of what this might look like from a practical perspective is, you know, when I was in graduate school and trying to look at how do I reallocate, like "Oh wow... |
So I started to train with a trainer, just once a week, because I was like "That's what I can commit to. I've got X amount of time", and I didn't try to change other things. It was like "What one thing can I tether in, can I braid in to what I'm already doing, that would buffer?" So I think about it like buffering all ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** And then you get sick, or something... Something happens. There's some sort of feedback, from your ability to sleep, getting sick, snapping at your friends, not relating well with others, falling asleep in class... Who knows...? There's some sort of feedback that says "What you're doing and how you'... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. So do you have any idea, if we're talking about this both in relationship with ourselves and with others, how or what indicator lights might emerge if I'm not being respectful, compassionate or empathetic. Because i think it's a question that's worth reflecting on, of going "How wou... |
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