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transcript
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H
5.2
4.6
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480
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Train
i was going to ask about that-
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so sift gets the data, but the only thing they pass is the score back to the... if-
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H
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they're looking over that airbnb data and just passing a score back to airbnb and that-
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right. that could be concerning for a variety of reasons.
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N
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it is the fact that your experiences in one place say-
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U
6
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Male
Train
you did have a really bad airbnb experience and meltdown there-
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X
5
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480
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Train
the idea that it would then impact your ability to order from yelp.
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N
3
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in that scenario, it feels a lot more legitimate.
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N
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Train
you actually see the potential benefits of this setup where the idea that-
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Train
if you're caught doing something fraudulent on one platform, the idea that would-
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did you get any insight into the algorithm by which-
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H
4.6
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480
Male
Train
scored the data or is that not there?no.
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H
4
4
3
480
Male
Train
reveal that there's this other company that's making that judgement.
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H
4
3
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480
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Train
in my head i assumed that they just didn't even tell you. you didn't even know that it was some other company, or even-
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4
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480
Male
Train
that there was a reason why you couldn't return something. but that's interesting that they revealed-
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they still don't explain actually how they came to that conclusion.
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X
3
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480
Male
Train
for laws now, i don't know how much of a chance any of them have-
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N
3
3
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Male
Train
but for more algorithmic transparency too. and i could see if any of those became law that then-
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5
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480
Male
Train
these companies would have to reveal at least something about the scoring process.
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H
4
3
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480
Male
Train
which would be interesting as well.
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H
5
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480
Male
Train
one of the things that struck me as interesting about the article-
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H
4
4
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480
Male
Train
i'm not surprised that company has come-
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H
3
4
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480
Male
Train
in for criticism because of it. it did strike me in reading that-
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H
3
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480
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Train
article, that the company was very straightforward with you, that they did give you all this-
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H
4
3
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480
Male
Train
information. they explained pretty much everything about why they had it and how they're using it and-
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6
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480
Male
Train
in the article. i think like i went through this semi rollercoaster ride-
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N
4
4
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480
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Train
messaging with this other company, but i-
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H
4
3
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480
Male
Train
then appreciated the way sif was very open with you, in talking to you and explaining how this was used-
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H
3
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480
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Train
and they didn't seem defensive at all. i don't know.
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N
4
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480
Male
Train
maybe that's just my read on the article. i don't know if you felt that they were more defensive-
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X
5
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480
Male
Train
but it felt like some other companies were-
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H
4
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Train
a lot more defensive. at least that was the impression i got from the article. is that your experience as well?
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and so it's not our-
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H
4
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480
Male
Train
this goes beyond just this.
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H
3
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Train
the gdpr in particular, they define-
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H
3
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480
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Train
different classes of companies. and there's data processors and data control-
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H
4.2
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480
Male
Train
prolers. and the data controllers are the ones that are supposed to reveal what data they have-
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Train
not the data processors, but nobody's entirely clear over who is-
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Train
actually who, and this is a bigger-
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ordeal. that there's a lot of finger-pointing that goes on where companies that you think probably should be classified as-
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data controllers are like "no, we're just data processors, you need to-"
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Train
"make the request from this other company".
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4
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i think that's a way that a lot of companies are trying to effectively pass the buck when they receive these kinds of-
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Train
requests and it sounds like that's definitely what happened with some of the companies that you spoke to.
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480
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Train
whenever i've seen, within the terms of service, i actually at least try to skim most of the terms of services that i agree to, when they say-
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data may be shared for things like this. i tend-
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to expect it to be more just like ip address-
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Train
and phone number or things like that.
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H
3
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480
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Train
not like the contents of my private me-
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Train
messages or whatever.right.and so that part, i definitely-
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wonder. it's like, okay. even if i believe, not that i'm posting that much sensitive stuff to airb-
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i mean, there are certainly cases where that would be where you might and-
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Train
you can think that maybe airbnb can protect this-
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data but, how well will some third party company that you don't even know has access to the data? how will they protect it? and you think-
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that's definitely a concern that's raised by the article.
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Train
so since you wrote about this in the new york times, and you sort of explained to people how they can get their data as well, do you know, i assume that-
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that all these companies that were saying, you were one of the first, or single digit numb-
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where people had requested their data. i assume that many of them may have-
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Train
and been deluged with more requests. have you?yeah.
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Train
and i kind of feel like-
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on the side of the consumer facing companies, i would like to know who it is that airbnb is sharing data with. and even if-
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i think like, it sounds like-
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Train
but, the fact that you don't know which data it is and who it is that they're sharing with. that seems like the thing that-
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Male
Train
was most eyeopening to me. and the thing that made me most interested in how these things work-
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and yet there's really no way to know right now-
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Train
but, it would be interesting if under-
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Male
Train
california's law, which i think, there are lots of problems with the law and i've talked about that in the past, but it-
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Train
sounds like certainly could be a potentially useful thing if they had to at least reveal who they're sharing the data with and which data that is.
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yeah. i mean, it does raise other issues, right?-
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Male
Train
and this has been the concern with data brokers in the past and credit scoring companies too, which are a related class-
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Train
of companies in that they have a lot of information on you that they may not reveal and they're scoring it in some way or another-
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Train
i think most people certainly understand credit scoring-
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Male
Train
but there are also all of these different stories of how those companies-
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N
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Train
have either incorrect or outdated-
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Train
information, and those decisions are then impacting your lives and-
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box concern seems pretty legitimate.
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H
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Train
it sounds like they-
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Male
Train
had, you didn't have any problems with the information that they had in terms of, they were scoring you as-
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a legitimate person, but you could see where somebody could get caught up in this and suddenly be getting services rejected all over the place and not having any idea why or have-
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Train
find out about it. and that part definitely seems concerning.
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Male
Train
and root out those who actually are trying to defraud the company in some way or another.
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Train
you can see how that benefits the people who are legitimate also so-
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Train
there's like this weird balancing act that has to go on and-
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it's kind of akin to the whole content moderation question that-
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social media companies deal with in terms of how do you deal-
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Train
who is a bad actor and who's actually acting legitimate. it's-
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the same issue. it's just that it's even more secretive. there are many other layers going into this and-
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you at least for better or for worse, you can blame the-
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here it's who knows, and you don't know why, and you don't get any information.what-
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smart, aligning of incentives that way. that's kind of fascinating.
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you can see why companies would actually like that.right.you know-
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it's effectively an insurance policy.yeah.
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Train
it's fraud, but also doing fraud limiting at the same time. that's-
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Train
did other companies, when other companies found out that you were a reporter working on this article-
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yeah, yeah. that's fascinating.
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Train
it's also fascinating that they apparently bought-
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disqus or discuss, i don't even know how you pronounce that.oh, yeah.
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Train
that's what i thought, but i don't know.
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Train
because they were the commenting platform that lots of sites used and the idea that-
[ { "feats": [ 0.09606601297855377, -0.13005457818508148, 0.12624618411064148, -0.03509014844894409, 0.7902923226356506, 0.4903564751148224, 0.09243476390838623, 1.5013988018035889, 0.8179482817649841, -0.012766939587891102, -0.8262515068054199, ...
H
3
3
3
480
Male
Train
-then they would get sold to a company that scores your worthiness.
[ { "feats": [ 0.07879851758480072, -0.1469724327325821, 0.20581094920635223, 0.045463576912879944, 0.7683038711547852, 0.48709800839424133, 0.11764021962881088, 1.3583482503890991, 0.8186512589454651, -0.003275208408012986, -0.8069936633110046, ...