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**Adam Stacoviak:** Right... Well, this isn't a show about Adam and his life, so I won't say anything, but I would definitely agree that absolutes often come in... Whether it's with relationships, whether it's with yourself, which is - as we just said - a variation of a relationship; or with coworkers, or just your wor... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yes... "I can never get it, no matter what. I can't. Ever", yeah, and it's just not true... Because maybe you're not living up to your own self-expectations or the expectations of somebody you care about, but "always" and "never" - it just can't apply. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. What are good words to use instead? If you're having this particular distortion, how can you reframe my always or nevers? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** It really is in going "What is true about what I'm saying?" |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** So, "some of the time..." or like-- it's specific. I'll think about it in the context of interpersonal relationships, in articulating a scenario in which they did do what you're trying to tell them about. Like, I wanna tell my partner about a time in which they wounded me. So I would say "... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[16:14\] "That trash is really important around here." |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[laughs\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's funny. I like that example, it's fun. What I've heard you say though - you put a timeframe to it. Rather than this "always" meaning "every single time it happens", it's more like "when this... " You sort of put a timestamp on it, rather than like "it's an absolute" timestamp. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Correct, I'm doing a specificity. I'm going to identify a specific occasion in which this occurred, because of the all-or-nothing is rooted in conditioning of past experiences. I might say "You never follow through. You never show up when you say you're going to", and it's like, okay, well... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. You're touching too on criticism, which I want to dive into at a deeper level on a different show... But whenever you criticize, you have to give different kind of data than just simply "You're always/never", because it's not correct feedback for someone to change. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. It doesn't help at all, because I don't know what to do differently. It's just -- you make it more of a global thing, instead of individualized and specific, so that then too it also breeds hope. If I feel like I never can get it right, I'm never going to-- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You won't try again. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah! And of course, of course, if you feel like there's no opportunity to do different. This is why it's so eroding in interpersonal relationships. So imagine if you're telling yourself that. Like, "You can NEVER get this one program. You should just never try." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** One of my favorites stories I've heard was actually -- and maybe UnderArmour will have to clarify this for me... But imagine that so much of life is like hummingbirds. Hummingbirds move things from one place to another, and so it's like -- say you have a strength in one lane, and you can d... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** So out comes UnderArmor and this awesome product. Well, then they realized that all of their smalls kept disappearing, and they were like "What is going on?" So then they moved it over into women, and they'd like shrink it and pink it, just change it up, and they moved it into another lane... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[19:59\] Yeah. Awareness plays a big part of this... Awareness and expectation. If you are aware of -- like you had said, if I'm gonna go into this as a novice, I should expect certain things and be aware of how that's different from when I'm an expert, as an example. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So if you're walking into a scenario where you're more of a novice, or you're still learning, or you're still growing, you should expect some struggle. And to go into it not thinking that is just setting yourself up for failure. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah, exactly! And it's really, totally unrealistic. That's why we call this a distortion. Bear in mind, as we're talking about these, there's always a nugget of truth to these distortions. Just imagine that I'm standing in sort of like this concave or convex mirror. It's still me, but-- |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It's just not the same typical Mireille when you stand today into a typical mirror, a flat mirror. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[laughs\] No, and then I would have a very different self-concept because of that mirror. Isn't that crazy to think about? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, I think what is interesting to -- and I think you did this already, but to specifically say it, like... There is truth in these distortions, and so you're not -- you know, if you're listening to this and you're examining some of the thoughts you're having and saying "Wow, I'm thinking catastro... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Exactly. So with that, I wanna talk about the next one, which - listen really close as I say this - we shouldn't should on ourselves. \[laughs\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay... That's funny to say. I like that. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** I know, but it's that same thing. I have an external construct, and I say "This is what I expect of me, so I should on myself." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** And just because maybe I'm good at this over here, then I expect or anticipate that I'm gonna be good at it over here, when in fact I'm struggling. So then I start putting in like "What's wrong with you? You SHOULD be able to do this." And now I just start the berating. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Isn't that a source of encouragement though? At what point does that blur into this distortion? Because I say to myself "Adam, you should do these things", and I can examine my thoughts and know they're not distorted in this case (like a distortion), and it's like, my inner voice - this "we" we just... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** It already did. \[laughs\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay... Okay, good. Let's dive in. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Because the issue with a should is that it is an external construct being applied to fit internally. And that doesn't really matter. So I would rephrase it or reframe it and say -- instead of considering it as though it is an encouragement, I would go "Do you want to?", not "I should." Is ... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. And we've already talked before about the importance of playing a role in your choices. A should seems to be, based on what you're saying, that the choice is outside of me, and I just have to fall in line to the mold, rather than being an active participant in choosing. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Amen. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[23:53\] Yes, yes. Because it's a qualitative feel, and that's why the should can be, to some people, oppressive. Because I would say too that to some degree personality style and past experiences play a role in this. I know from my experience in sports and athletics -- I mean, my coaches... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah. You were like "You \*should\*." It was not nice. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[laughs\] No. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You shouldn't speak to somebody like that. See, I just used a should. Are they all bad then? Come on... You can't say that all shoulds are bad. Is that what you're saying? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** No. Ha-ha, you're going back to the bad... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I'm just trying to -- it's like, I feel like there is a blurred line there where shoulds are maladaptive, I should say. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** But why should that be true? What measure are you using? Again, if we look at some of what we've talked about, let's be more specific. Why is it important to you? If I were to say "I should write", because you know, I want to write. But should, if I'm saying "I should" - it's going to crea... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You're gonna feel negative. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah...! Yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** You're not living up to your expectation, or some expectation of you. The mold you should fit in. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. I still hold that desire, but now I'm like: "Look, I failed... So why should I try again?" |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I don't know. I'm having a hard time grasping this one, if I'm being honest... Because I feel like there's times when I can see it being good, and being bad or distorted. I'm struggling on this one in particular. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Well, maybe I think that part of it might be the nuance in how you've used it with yourself... |
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