EmoClass
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EmoAct
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EmoVal
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EmoDom
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SpkrID
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stringclasses
2 values
Split_Set
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transcript
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1
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H
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right, exactly. so that's just kind of a, just a definitional difference between, i guess, i think the different ways of looking at new cities and advertis... [crosstalk 00:06:36].
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...essential.yep.but as far as making sure that the cities are able to be successful, i think this is why we have a really strong preference for local [crosstalk 00:06:47].
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...developers that are already building a city. right. so nkwashi, before we came along, it was already being built. the first residents are moving in this year and the business plan that was created [crosstalk 00:06:58].
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so what we focus on specifically are how to kind of 10x those gains, or even a 100x those gains by allowing them to operate within governing [crosstalk 00:07:10].
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...systems that, again, we've seen work, not just here in the us, but in again, places like singapore and shenzhen and dubai.
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...fit is sort of the most important thing. and so it's an interesting way of looking at it. now, before we started this podcast, we were talking about what we're going [crosstalk 00:07:32].
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H
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...in terms of what his original vision was.i do. yeah. it's so funny because even today, disney world, and i guess more broadly celebration of florida celebration of florida kind of retain [crosstalk 00:07:43].
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A
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...certain measures of autonomy, but yeah, disney world was kind of the proto american charter city. so walt disney, of course, in his vision for [crosstalk 00:07:54].
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N
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...for epcot. and i didn't actually know this until i became kind of obsessed with this a few months ago, but epcot stands for the experimental prototype community of tomorrow. and it just doesn't get more charter cities in that [crosstalk 00:08:05].
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...was going to expand on that. right. so the idea there is that you'd have different forms of transit. cars would be underground and it would be a, the pedestrian would be king is what he said [crosstalk 00:08:17].
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F
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...in that initial video, and he called it the community of tomorrow that will never be completed. right. and i think when you think about disney world, you can't really [crosstalk 00:08:28].
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...separate it from the cultural context in which walt disney existed, right. it's a time in which we're going to the moon. we are just kind of [crosstalk 00:08:37].
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H
4
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hopefully i'll remember, we'll try and link into it with the show notes, because it's really incredible. it is not what disney world or epcot became by any [crosstalk 00:08:50].
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H
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...stretch of the imagination. it had a much bigger vision of really what a small city, a very modern small city could be like [crosstalk 00:09:00].
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H
4
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...all of this kind of unique stuff. that was really interesting. and you look at it and you think, wow, that, that could be, that could have been [crosstalk 00:09:11].
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N
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i actually don't remember what year that video was made. and do you know, off the top of your head?i don't.but it's interesting to think that around that time [crosstalk 00:09:23].
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...couple decades, i would say, have really sort of gone back to that and knocked out. there are so many cities now that had these awful freeways along [crosstalk 00:09:34].
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H
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...us by an earthquake.that's not funny. i shouldn't be laughing.no, it's not. well, it's pretty far in the past at this point. but lots of other cities have sort of gone through that [crosstalk 00:09:45].
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...that same transformation. and then you look at this video that disney put forth and he had this same vision for much more [crosstalk 00:09:55].
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H
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much more pedestrian traffic and the ability to, in his case he wanted to move the freeways underground almost entirely. it's a really interesting-
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H
4
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vision. i do wonder how cities would've developed if his vision had come to fruition and more people could have learned from it and recognized it.there is-
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Train
a little bit of good news. and i believe it was, this is in the 60s, probably i want to say '66. but if that's wrong i'm sure somebody will tell you.sure. yeah.
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and developments that did place a higher priority on an urbanesque feel. so at least there's a small victory. but actually way across the pond, in france-
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the val de europe. and again, somebody will probably tell you that i pronounce that incorrectly. the sort of-
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disneyworld of france did quite well, actually. it was kind of the same sort of idea, except it was done as a, it was built as a public-private partnership with-
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with the government. and so it was very true to the ideals that he had, making the pedestrian king. it had about 4,000 residents when it first opened. today-
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it has over 30,000 and it's growing. so when you look at how it failed here, in the same ways that it failed here it succeeded quite beautifully in france.
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H
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and so that's all good news.that's interesting. that's interesting. i had no idea. i didn't know that. i've always, i just remember when disney-
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H
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launched euro disney that it was generally considered a joke and a flop. but-that's actually how it was considered in america as well, quite trivial and just kind of silly.yeah.
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H
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where i think a lot of what we're talking about and a lot of the interest and excitement is over this idea of experimentation and-
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H
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real presence of whoever decides how the whole thing is set up.yeah, i think this is one of the reasons why a lot of the charter cities movements-
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the early ones fell apart. so a lot of them were heavily dependent on, the first two projects rather, were quite dependent on [romer 00:02:22]. so the projects rise-
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and fall with one person. that's a great recipe for nothing ever being successful. and even in the disney case, walt disney died about two months after-
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where he laid out his plans for disneyworld. and i think you see that in the execution of disneyworld. so that's why in our workings, it's so important to think about not one-
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concerns addressed, but two, to be really bought in on a charter city. because-right.a lot of these projects fail because there are a lot of different stakeholders that have some-
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knowledge, but almost none that have all of them. and so we kind of exist as the shelling point between these different groups. but to the extent that they can-
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collaborate on their own or with us, that's really important as well. and i think that's one way that you mitigate this sort of central locus of control. that's just one-
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we haven't done work there. but actually we just got a paper, i'll have to send it to you afterwards so you can link it in the show notes.sure.but mark actually just sent me a really-
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great chapter summary of a book, i think it was, about detailing why exactly shenzhen took off in the way that the other special economic zones in china-
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didn't. in 1980 it's a poor fishing village. there's about 30,000 people living there. it's a rural area. today there are upwards of 16 million people-
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living there, it's the manufacturing capital of the world, it's a center of biotech in the world and it's not always obvious why that-
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Train
would be the success story among the others. so i'll link it to you. i haven't actually gotten a chance to read it just yet.okay.but i'm pretty excited to dig into it.
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because it was nothing short of a miracle.yeah. and i think it's really interesting and i don't know enough about it either. i've read some stuff-
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here and there about it, but i haven't really studied it very closely. but i think it's fascinating and i think it's, some of what's fascinating, of course, is china being a communist country-
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how that worked and how that's worked out and what that's led to today.yeah, the world bank details this. the paper i'm thinking of is-
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a report called "building engines for growth and competitiveness in china." it's chapter two. for anybody who's really interested in reading more in depth about it, it's a fantastic summary. martel-
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as intuitive as maybe some of the other ones have. let me give you an example. cause that might feel like a weird question.
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i'm thinking in particular, and i'm going back to this idea that i mentioned earlier of all these-
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government officials used to come here often from europe. i'm trying to figure out how do they make a silicon valley. and i had this presentation that i used to give to the-
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and in that presentation, what i do is, i would go through the obvious factors, the things that everyone immediately thinks about, which are, the nice weather,
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the good universities, the venture capital industry, all these things that everyone's like, "yes, right, of course." and that's what people think. and you would have, everyone would say, "okay, well we need to have-"
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"a good university and we need to have access to capital for entrepreneurs." but the point of the presentation was to then-
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Train
talk about the other things, the things that people don't think about or don't fully understand. in that case i would talk about all these different studies that were actually really interesting about-
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hidden and was counterintuitive. and i would have these discussions where officials from europe would be surprised-
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just because they were, "well, where we come from normally people will stay with their same job for a really long time and they don't do a lot of job hopping."
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that would be a big cultural shift. and there are all these things that they hadn't necessarily considered. so i'm wondering, is there anything that you guys have come across-
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Train
that seems deeper in the weeds and a little bit less intuitive, that seems to lead to maybe a good outcomes for-
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for example, bringing british judges to singapore and to dubai, that's a way to implement common law. those general constituent parts, when we-
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Train
reference these other cities, are pretty straightforward. one thing that has been interesting for us to think about in the past couple of weeks is how you actually-
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protect a charter city from expropriation.yeah.say a charter city does well. what is to say that the government won't just come in and take it?right.or people won't rebel-
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against it in other neighboring cities, et cetera. when we were just, we were recently out in san francisco, we did a mini charter city summit at founders fund. and-
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when this explicit question was asked, [moya 00:07:30] , the ceo, of course, of [quasi 00:07:33] said, "i think the way that you do it is by listing it publicly." and people can-
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Train
actually buy shares in the charter city. you have one, a distributed base of owners and it's much less, much more difficult to expropriate,right.from-
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Train
interesting-yeah. no, i mean [crosstalk 00:07:52].mechanism. so that's the one i'll be excited to see explored.yeah. it's certainly not impossible. there have been-
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Train
publicly traded firms that have been nationalized. it is possible. but it does, it certainly would piss off a lot more people, i think, and lead-
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Train
to lead to some interesting challenges. but oh, that is a very interesting one. i like that. that's good to think about.yeah. it'll be really exciting to see how that gets-
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implemented. i'll look forward to it.
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U
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yeah, yeah. very interesting. all right, to round out the podcast, what are the things that you are most excited about?
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you mentioned the various cities that you're looking at and talking about right now. even looking maybe a little bit beyond that, what do you think is going to be the most interesting thing over the next-
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Train
few years?the goal for us, we don't want to see one charter city or two charter cities or even five charter cities. we want to see dozens of these charter-
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cities. we'll hope to, in 10 years, be an industry trade association where once we get a big public-
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win. so it's [quasi 00:09:05], it's the city in honduras, it's whichever. that will make it a lot easier to find a process that works-
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and then repeat this model. mark likes to call it "charter cities in a box." now, of course, each new location will have its own-
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local challenges. and those will definitely have to be dealt with. but the idea is that you could repeat this model throughout the world. and so-
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if this goes well, the goal that we are holding ourselves accountable to is to help lift tens of millions of people out of poverty. that's why the center exists. that's what i'll look-
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forward to. but moving beyond charter cities to a more domestic focus, we're also looking at how can you make the best better. in the us-
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whether or not you think our systems are working well, it is among the gold standards in the world, if not the gold standard in the world,
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which i tend to think it is. so over here, we're thinking about how can we revitalize our institutions? how can we ensure that we
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continue to be the global leader in technological progress and innovation. and so our america program, which we're still kind of thinking about at a very high level, and
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there'll be about 30% of what we do when we really get it going. that's kind of the next thing that we've got our eyes on.
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great, that's very interesting. this should be lots of stuff to pay attention to and i'll be following you guys more closely now. and as these things go
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forward would love to have you back on the podcast, maybe in couple years and see where things are.absolutely. yeah. we've got a twitter page. it's @innovativegovernance, a facebook
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page at the same name. we also have a newsletter, so that's kind of where you can follow our stuff.cool. well, thank you very much for
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for the work that you do and for taking the time to join us on the podcast, this was great.thanks so much, mike. i really enjoyed this.thanks, bye.
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dragnet is just one of those things, so it started back in the nineties as a way to give the intelligence side of fbi
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the same kind of subpoena power that you would get with a d order. so in other words, you can go and get phone records or you can go and you can subpoena a business
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can you just explain what d orders are for people who don't know??d orders are done without a grand jury and then
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the nineties was we need a similar function on the intelligence side so that we can go figure out what suspected russian spies are doing
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even though we don't ever intend to prosecute them and we want to keep it super duper secret because these are russian spies. so that was the logic back in the nineties with
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if it, so, i mean, sorry. in december of 2005, that was like, literally they were about to reauthorize the patriot act. then all of a sudden this huge program was disclosed
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and there was a delay in reauthorizing the patriot act and congress said, "hmm, let's put some limits on this. let's require that it be relevant to an investigation" and
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this is one of those examples where fbi said "i'm going to redefine relevant, too, in secrets and make it mean all". actually, they'd already done that in 2004, but regardless, because
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trying to suck up all of the phone records so i call you, you call me, we're on for 10 minutes.that's the kind of information they're getting, as well as, by the way,
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pretty early on in the patriot act process, they were also getting
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is that the fisa court. this is one of the actually good things about the fisa court. the fisa court actually takes notice of what's going on, not just in
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criminal courts, but even in magistrate courts around the country. and because of what's called the magistrates rebellion back in this timeframe in 2006,
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a couple magistrates were like "you know, i don't think you should get location data with a d order." that's the thing i re referenced earlier. right? right. "i don't think you should be able to get
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cell phone location data." and so the fica court said, "huh, that's interesting. why don't you brief it?" and there were several rounds of briefing that question
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and i think in 2009, although i can't guarantee the date, the fisa court's like, we also don't think you should be getting, i mean, by, by 2014, it's clear
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here that because there were districts in the country that required a warrant for cell phone location, the fisa court had done so as well, they were
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