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**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah, I think of this a lot in working with couples, romantic partners, in that a lot of times in the relational dynamic there tends to be one individual who tends to be what we call the pursuer, who's going to come after, go after, relentlessly pursue... Whereas the other partner tends to... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** "Let's talk about this!" |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right?! And the turtle is like "Just leave me alone! I'm in my cave!" \[laughs\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** This visualization I'm having right now is so crazy. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Well, so having a time specified... And I say never longer than 60 minutes, because the pursuer needs to go "I know we're coming back." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. And they're waiting. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. Whereas the withdrawer gets to be like "Phew... I get to breathe, hang out in my shell, my cave... Like, give me 60 minutes and then I can re-engage around whatever upsetting thing occurred." |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So what would you do during the breakdown? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Well, for the pursuer, the person who wants to have the conversation, writing things down. We've talked a lot about the "name it to tame it." Well, when I'm putting words to things, imagine that's still an action-based coping strategy, because I'm maneuvering the data and I'm utilizing add... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. Let me also throw one more in there... What you're actually doing too is you're channeling the existing energy and the emotion. Since you said it has to go somewhere, well why not put it to pen paper? That's a methodology of allowing that emotion to continue to flow... And maybe when you get ... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Exactly. And you feel far more equipped, because it doesn't come out just like this gibberish of information, but rather "Hey, I'm upset when you did X, Y or Z, because this how I heard you say that to me, and then I was offended, hurt, angry, sad", you name it. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** So it becomes far more -- I would say the challenge it these sort of relationships is while you still feel vulnerable, you actually have to be your own advocate. And that's hard... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Super-hard. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. Well, you're activated and you're emotional, and it's like "I've gotta get this out, I've gotta get this out", because what you're trying to do is relieve the tension of that emotion. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. What about the turtle? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Well, the turtle - they're gonna do whatever they need to do as well. And I would still recommend the same strategies, with writing things down. Also breathing... We haven't mentioned that, but what a lot of people don't realize is ironically when they get upset, they hold their breath. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[39:54\] Oh yes, that's true. That's why I love my Apple Watch. My Apple Watch reminds me several times a day, even if I don't listen, to breathe. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. This is really at the heart of the beginning of panic attacks. And always there's more to it than this... But you start holding your breath, and then you can't breathe, and then your brain is like "Hey, you're not breathing...!" |
**Adam Stacoviak:** There's an actual panic. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right, so I'm sending the signals, like "You're in danger, you're in danger...!" |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Which reinforces your concerns, yeah. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Correct. You've catapulted a whole cycle. And that's why even just the five-count, breathing - breathing in for five, and breathing out for five. Breathing in for five seconds, and discharge and breathe out for five seconds. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Wow. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** I know. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** We should tell our audience to do that right now, those listening. Just pause this show and breathe. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yeah. Ready? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Sure... \[laughter\] |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Here we go, we're gonna breathe in... Ready? One, two, three, four, five. And breathe out. Two, three, four, five. And one more time - in, two, three, four, five. And out - two, three, four five. How do you feel? |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I feel better. It sounds like you've done this before. Is this not your first time doing that? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** It is not. Because this is what I help teach people how to do, and that's why it really is acquiring a skill. One of the things I also incorporate with deep breathing is what we call visualization, or a guided imagery. You can find these on YouTube, practices... And I wanna say there are o... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, you can taste the ocean water in the air... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Sure. Sure, yeah. So all of these things help remind your body that there isn't a real and active present danger that you need to react to. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I used to do something similar whenever I lived in Upstate New York and it was really cold. I would imagine Florida, or a beach... I'm not sure if it's the same thing, but I would basically trip my mind from thinking "Wow, you're really cold right now", to "It could be a little bit warmer, or whatev... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Is that the same thing as visualization? Sort of a mind-trickery, so to speak? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** It is. Well, this is sort of -- I don't know, I think odd in some ways, but it totally makes sense... But our brains don't really know the difference whether it's real or imagined, because it has to run the same neural network. So whether I'm picturing myself in Florida at the beach, or I'... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Is that similar to public speakers when they say "Imagine the audience naked?" Because if an audience is naked, they're the ones vulnerable. Usually, when you're naked, you're vulnerable. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Sure, yeah. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So maybe they're less of a threat. Is that the same thing? |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** \[44:02\] Yeah, yeah. It's a strategy to calm their brain, so that they're not in that anxious place around what is everybody thinking, imagining, perceiving etc, which... We're never in charge of how other people hear what we say. The things I've heard people say I've said, I did not say.... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's really interesting, this mind-trickery. I think we've talked about this before, but this idea that you said our mind doesn't understand if it's real or if it's manufactured, so to speak. I like that, because it's a way you can acquire a skill even. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Yes. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** If you watch somebody else do something that you really enjoy, maybe your brain thinks you've done it and somehow you've acquired this skill, and maybe even some courage. |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** Sure, because it's further enhancing that network that goes "This is the way we play." This is why it's even (I would say) used more often in athletics that you get filmed. When you see yourself being filmed, it also facilitates more of that comprehensive picture of you doing whatever skil... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So what are some key takeaways for the audience then? If we're talking about coping and how to get through these emotional charges, and these irrational thoughts we have in a moment of HALT, or whatever it might be... |
**Mireille B. Reece, Psy.D:** One, it's really important, like we've talked about, that you can get where you wanna go, but that it's going to take practice, like all things, and we never get better at the things we don't practice. I often talk about approximating the live event, because whenever you're trying to learn... |
So you can go let me pick from my list of five, and then experiment. Go try. Even after the fact, even if it feels silly... You won't find out; you forfeit vicariously if you never are willing to try. |
• Habits are a fundamental aspect of human behavior and are formed through repetition |
• Habits are neural networks that are built over time and are influenced by neurochemicals such as dopamine |
• The CAR model: Cue, Anticipated response, and Reward is key to understanding habit formation |
• Habits can be positive or negative and are often difficult to break due to their automatic nature |
• Repetition and practice can build muscle memory and strengthen habits |
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