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had gone, i was like "were some of those people really coming in at the end and like, 'oh,
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937
Female
hey, it's like a room temperature, fruit salad made-
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Female
this is not a dessert that you eat without attention to it.
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Female
daughter, nora brooks blakely who's wonderful and i asked her about this fruit salad-
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recipe and she remembered it very well. it was something, it was a treat and she remembers it very fondly. and she said-
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she said to me that the cooking in her family always had a kind of-
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they cooked some classic dishes, but always added something kind of extra-
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special, she was talking about, was it a tuna casserole or chicken casserole? now i can't remember. but she remembers adding cornflakes to the casserole too, or potato chips. that's what it was. it was potato-
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Female
chips, not corn flakes. so, you know, fossum-a little crunch.yeah, exactly., exactly.
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Female
well, thank you so much for talking to us today about gwendolyn brooks-thank you.about your opinions of frozen fruit salad. okay, thanks.thank you.
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blend where it gets used very differently and it does resemble in some ways english secretary hand, but can you talk now a little bit about how it-
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and for being here at the newberry this week?thank you very much-
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his arguments in a way that would resonate with a larger audience.
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disputations tended to work this way. so before you had a disputation, which usually happens-
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Male
they were so poignant and really drove home some things that would be important for him-
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later, such as the idea that it was impossible for people to merit salvation or that the pope was responsible for the practice of indulgences.
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Male
it really sets up that later antagonism between himself and the papacy right away.
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i think of the 95 theses directly referred to the pope and his power. so there are things that people would have really noticed about the-
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this listicle, as you call them, so it was a fairly common practice in a fairly limited context-
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Male
but what luther did rather unwinningly was open it up to a much wider audience.
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and this is what we see happening as they started to circulate. even places that didn't have universities, were reprinting them and distributing them.
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yeah. i like the theses that are the particularly incendiary ones.
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i mean, some of them are just sort of your basic academic point that you just sort of pass over.
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but some of them really get to the heart of what luther's concerns are. so for instance, thesis, number 32-
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which says "those who believe that they can be certain of their salvation because they have indulgence letters will be eternally damned together with their teachers." so right away-
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you see luther really bringing out the stakes and in a way that you can't have a neutral position on that.
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this is something that's going to elicit some sort of reaction from anybody who comes across it.
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yeah. that's that seems quite inflammatory. it's saying not-
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he's surprised by the expansive reach that his ideas had because he just didn't think that his ideas could appeal to a large-
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anticipating a formal trial before some sort of church council, but before that actually happens-
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chris fletcher is the mellon major projects fellow at the newberry and a key contributor to our recently launched project, religious change 1450 to 1700.
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but most of the time when we tell stories about the past-
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so you're approaching the topic from a more radical museum studies perspective. so to start off our conversation-
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and the museum has just opened an exhibit, that'll be up through july. tell us about that.
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and i think so. i mean, historians, present company excluded,
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of course, have also been as guilty as museums of sort of not telling the complete-
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core of wonderful every day public housing residents, who've been trained in the ethics, the media technology of oral history.
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and they go out and get the oral histories for us.
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you know, both here in chicago and also around the country and people like [temile 00:06:54] black came in the legendary south side-
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of the museum is to of course ground our methods in the individual stories and to rely on empathy.
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but what we want to do is really be a catalyst for people to become engaged-
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citizens of this world, and to really feel like we actually have to rethink housing policy in our country.
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it's one of the most dire issues that we're facing as a people, and we can't just leave it to other people to do it.
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so all of the things, this conversation-
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that we've just been having is from laws on the wall to using these built spaces within the museum space-
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the museum that was once a public housing building to tell stories, and i'm curious, lisa, if you could just elaborate a little bit. earlier, you were talking about the museum as a catalyst for-
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citizens like taking interest about policy-making into their own hands.
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what other methodologies besides just exhibits are people coming to the museum? like how else-
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do you think that museums can do that maybe through bringing people together-
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using the physical space, but also creating communities kind of outside of that-
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Female
great to be here at the newberry library, once beautiful place in the world.
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do you think that that's part of why it resonated so much is the identifiable character or the texture, or was it something bigger that you didn't really understand when you first saw it?
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or people share that opinion with you, lovable rogue, as some people refer to him. so you mentioned that it-
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Female
hmm. interesting. so you think, so did campbell theory of the monomyth emerge before star wars?yes.the initial film?
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989
Female
yeah. interesting. you also mentioned in the ... when we were just discussing-
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just campbell in general, the story of moses.
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sort of a relationship to truth and faith. and i think it's a really interesting way of thinking about mythology is-
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is like trust mythology and how much does it actually reveal about-
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the way we see the world and what is the nature of truth and myth? and so like with star wars, for example, a lot of people see it as-
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storytelling in general, as a way to reveal truths about the world.
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why do you think we should be taking it seriously? and why should we be thinking about it in terms of mythology and religion?yeah, that's-
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there'll be no smearing [crosstalk 00:09:42] of han solo's name on this podcast.
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Male
is the one who was directing the battle at the death star-that's right.in episode 4, a new hope.
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it's very interesting. so, are there any other character parallels to the reformation and star wars?
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there's also a kind of alternative reading. we could suggest that-
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... police force kind of like the knights templar, and they're very much ensconced within the, the political bureaucracy...
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they have their own academy where they train young acolytes. they have the jedi archives-
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the jedi of run amok they're corrupt-
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... and i think that star wars is a great case study for charting the push and pull between governments-
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in the prequels, would you say palpatine is more of the catholic church or more luther?
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i think that one could make the argument that he's maybe more luther. i mean, it's counterintuitive...
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they renounced a lot of the pleasures of the world that were rough clothing...
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... right, yeah. and how do you think that star wars helps people today understand their place in the world?
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yeah, i think it goes back to this idea of storytelling-
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star wars, like all myth-making, speaks to the trials and tribulations of the human condition.
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i think, again, that's what makes it timeless and universal-
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it addresses the obstacles that we all face, you know, the journey of self-realization,-
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it's really a great...
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Male
a great guide, i think, to how one should...
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my first question today is what exactly is limp parchment? and what's so interesting about it?well,
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... very cool. so looking at the parchment binding means that we can-
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... maybe think about different ways that different people would be reading-
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... and make some educated guesses, like, is it french, italian, spanish? and so that gave me a clue that this was printed in lyon.
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so yeah, there's some little peculiarities that make it french. they do reinforce the spine of the book a little bit with an extra sheet of parchment. and i'm still-
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... the covers themselves are not stiffened by card or anything else. but inside was wonderful, because i opened it and i immediately recognized latin.
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... when you open the book, that's not printed on...
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there are probably five or six different styles in handwriting, colors of ink...
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and it was very exciting to read the names in this book. so this book has provided-
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... some of its history. that there was a guy named jerome, who was the son of joseph...
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he says, this is my book - hic liber est meus.
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a bunch of notes in here that say [foreign language 00:07:26] which italian would be questo libro. if i was writing that in italian,-
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... i would say questo libro, this book is blah, blah, blah.
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but this says questu, [inaudible 00:07:39] with a u at the end. and that is very southern italian.
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... was being written in his possession-
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... notes that indicate who's owning this book over time.
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that tells me that this book was printed in lyon and bound in lyon-
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... and made its way all the way to southern italy, which is pretty cool. and so,-
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... this was a great example. also looking at the contents of the book, which are...
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this book is not used in a liturgical service,-
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... it's a small, portable book. but it gives the stories of lazarus and his sisters,-
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