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conversations about how complicated the work is, how difficult it is, and
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come out to, you know, people have to have a resolution at the end of the day.
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So anyway, which is which is all a very long-winded way of saying what I really like about the case studies that we're working with you on is that we're able to
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show to a broader audience how Decisions get made and the sort of questions that trust and safety professionals ask themselves every time there's a you know a
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The Trust and Safety Foundation website is hosting.
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recommend again I'm sort of recommending all these other podcasts on this podcast but
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about Facebook's content policy.
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team and decision-making process that I thought was really, really good. And they just re-released it with a slight update at the end.
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relevant to more recent happenings and things like the Trump executive order.
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text on section 230. But I actually, one of the things I really liked about that episode is that it walks you through that thought process.
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in a very clever way. RadioLub is very good at that, where they sort of walk you down this road of saying, like, here's the decision that was made and showing how it makes sense.
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Wait, that's not gonna work in this case.
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So we have to change our policy and make a different decision.
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then they walk you down this path and they throw you another curveball and you suddenly realize like that's kind of what trust and safety professionals have to do all the time.
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which is why the case studies project that we're working on together with you is so important, right, in order to kind of show people that all these really con-
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complicated questions that trust and safety professionals are juggling every time they have to make a decision. And there's sort of...
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no right answer and answers change over time as we gather more.
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information, but it is a really hard job. And I'm just like thinking back to some experiences that I've had.
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where even people internally at some of the companies that I've worked at.
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have pinged me in and asked like, well, did you consider X, Y, and Z? And the answer is yes. And I can tell you, you know, you made that consideration.
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So we don't do enough with that transparency as a field.
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to show how complicated the trade-offs can be. And I'm just also getting...
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kind of to myself because I remember working on a policy.
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and I was called out in the press for being a pearl clutcher for coming out.
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you know, and a certain decision that I had, and it was just very amusing to me.
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but sometimes it's easy to become defensive. And so one of the things that the Trust and Safety Professional Association and the Trust and Safety Foundation Project can do.
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is kind of demonstrate how complicated these decisions are without necessarily
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necessarily having to, you know...
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So, you know, over time, the sort of structure continues.
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you know because of the reporting and like the scrutiny.
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that's coming into play right now, I think in the last five years or so, there are a lot more folks who are building products who are asking themselves right.
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the outset. What can I do to make sure that I'm...
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making, you know, just like how people shift it from making private...
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Yeah, I think that's a really great point and a really good way of framing it and thinking about it.
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other things that I think would be nice for more people to understand and to learn about and that hopefully, you know, with...
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in these roles and are taking on these positions and responsibilities.
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deeply about these issues. It's another one of these things where a lot of people who don't have the experience jump in and assume that these are
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very easy decisions. And when they see a decision that they dislike, they assume nefarious
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motives and other sorts of malfeasance.
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and yes, you know, every one of them has...
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trade-offs and you can disagree with how people come out on the trade-offs but to assume
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that it was done for, you know, nefarious or, you know, biased.
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you walk through it, you can disagree with how they came out on it.
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But it wasn't like people didn't think through these decisions.
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to have like a kind of...
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you know, more universal knowledge rather than just the knowledge that's baked into each company and how they've developed their own trust and safety practices as they've grown is
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still view trust and safety teams as a cost center to most companies when they're looking at their budget lines, not necessarily as a value center.
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And like Adelaine and I mentioned earlier, trust and safety employees bring so much back to companies in value of their experience on any platform.
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So we're really hoping that, you know, at some point in time, this professional field of professionals can really be
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seen as you know the value centers to companies the same way you know today people don't blink of blink enough
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infrastructure, they understand how much that is.
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important to invest in, but for most people, trust in the safety.
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teams have been banned aid solutions to things that go very wrong and they haven't necessarily had that investment in respect.
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We really hope that over time we can really also uplift that perception for executives at companies.
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I think it used to be, you know, back in the early days, sort of you would...
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you would create this great product and you wouldn't think about all the awful things that could happen on your product because you're so focused on we're gonna change the world you know
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It's a very idealistic approach. And then the first moment you get a bad thing happening.
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Oh, we got to put someone on this and that's how I think a lot of these departments, you know, organically came up as a separate function.
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So I think that's another key important part of.
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of content moderation and the day-to-day rules of a lot of these professionals being really black and white and simple.
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Yeah, I think that's important too, sort of the cybersecurity side of it and then also like, you know, as we've seen more.
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more where there's like, you know, nation state level.
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tax and trolling and all these other things all come into the trust and safety process and need to be thought about.
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And the idea that that is not important in sort of central role.
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I think more and more of them are recognizing that it is. And I think that's part of the...
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reason why I think it's great what you guys are putting together with these organizations is it's part of the recognition of this role and how important it is.
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and how central it is to many companies in making sure that they're operating.
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work well.
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mentioned earlier that there's some relationship.
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And I think of it in a similar way in that, a lot of companies historically...
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you know, this part of the organization that didn't want to deal with this much and like more and more companies have recognized like how central it is like that is the touch point.
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And I think that we're going to see more and more of that in the trust and safety space too, that like designing
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viewpoint and making sure that it is central to how these
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And so, you know, having an organization like this that can help with that process.
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But it is this weird thing where it's like until people are sort of forced to confront the ideas themselves and think through, they...
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a lot of people, and maybe it's just the people that I talk to.
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Getting in the way of like me being able to say what I want must be, you know, must be bad. But they do.
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this really important role of making these platforms usable.
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And I think that's really important for people to understand.
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whatever you want and that's not
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the case in other countries and we're seeing that through regulation and how that impacts the human.
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how the platforms need to perform.
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or how they need to exist in those countries.
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say whatever I want with no consequences. So that's just an interesting...
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I think it's also, that hasn't been mentioned as much is.
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and moderation. There's obviously a lot of regulation around.
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privacy today but the more privacy
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companies have, sometimes it makes it so much harder to properly moderate.
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content and around maybe moderating threat intelligence and porn influence.
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operations. The one key thing that a lot of companies have to determine is if information is coming from certain countries.
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that I hear all the time and that, you know, that, that, you know, there's no need for them and that all they're doing is just sitting there being sort of, you know, awful.
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like, you know, prude, whatever, like.
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and it takes a lot to get people to understand.
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don't necessarily realize it. And, you know, I've told this
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a few times but not in a while where it's like even you know I run
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a relatively small site in Tectert that has user comments and our original position.
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We're not there to review any of the comments or do any moderation.
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And the first time, you know, I suddenly had to start to think through these issues was when someone came on the comments and was literally threatening to kill someone.
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this and what do I do? And then...
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you have no rules at all, right? You have to have some sort of functional set up of rules.