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thinking about how all the pieces of this film might work together, it really
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promises about what kind of content moderation they might do.
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I think most of the incentives in this bill stack towards online services saying, you know,
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single word in those policies potentially opens you to many different lawsuits.
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Right, so the fear there is that in some sense it also decreases the transparency of how all of these things operate, because any transparency...
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is now opening you up to liability.
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in the downside. So what do you see here with the Holly?
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This is an idea that's come up a lot over the years. I've heard it from...
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groups out of Europe who want more moderation.
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What does it do and what does it mean?
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Yeah, it's a good question.
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This is a proposal that combines a couple of ideas that are really floating around about
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says, these are the 26 words that created the internet after Jeff Koss's book title, that broadly shields intermediaries of...
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all sorts from liability for user generated content.
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if that liability would treat the intermediary as a speaker or a publisher of that content. So it's a very broad liability.
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on this particular liability shield. So it's really kind of the heart and soul.
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contingent on intermediaries where it introduces now the concept of edge providers.
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doing a couple of things. One, companies would have to have terms of service or content policy that articulates what their content policy is.
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It would have to then promise to design and operate their systems, quote unquote, in,
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And this appears to mean in the proposal from Holly that either you're kind of human moderation.
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but also any automated systems that you have.
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that you use in a content filtering system can also not be intentional selective enforcement.
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So this would really significantly change what it meant for a service to craft a content policy and enforce it.
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order. But last week we saw some level of, I guess you could call it, movement on two parts of the plans to dismantle section 230. First
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Section 230, I guess you could call it limit, Section 230, entitled the limiting, Section 230 to good Samaritan.
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Act, which does a bunch of very odd things in my opinion, and most particularly would turn the...
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decisions that they deem to be not in good faith.
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Yes, this is the same Josh Hawley who has already released other bills that would also rewrite section 230.
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seems to have a thing for disliking and dismantling section 230. Later the same day that the Holly Bill was introduced
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the Justice Department released its first draft of a plan to reform Section 230.
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and it sort of tried to balance the two conflicting complaints.
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about section 230, which is that one group feels that it doesn't give enough incentives to take down bad stuff.
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and another group feels that it gives too much freedom to take down stuff they like.
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DRJ's plan says that the law should be revised to force companies to take down more bad stuff, but leave up
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Just a general description of a plan rather than anything like a reference law, but it's...
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experts, both of whom have been on the podcast before.
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We have Emma Lonso from the Center for Democracy and Technology.
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Kathy Gellis, who is an independent internet lawyer and a frequent contributor to tech
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organization, when we open up membership.
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we're looking to have anybody be able to join if they consider themselves a trust and safety professional.
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We're starting off mostly English speaking just because most of our initial members are.
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to limit where we are geographically on the purpose.
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we recognize and know that there's a lot more organizations and companies that we want to work with in Europe and everywhere else.
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You know, because it is one of the challenges that people have is recognizing the international aspect of it.
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And how do you handle even just like the legal request little
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Cool. Well, I really appreciate you guys taking the time and, you know, well, for launching these.
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really, really hard. We've had lots of discussions over the last few months as you guys have been putting this together. And I'm excited to see that it's launched and I'm really excited.
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to see where both of these organizations go and what they do.
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as well. And I keep saying this because normally I say...
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We'll be back next week. I think we'll be back next week ever since Pandemic times time has changed all meaning and so we're not
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on an every week schedule, but I think we're getting close to it.
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we should be back soon after with another podcast. But thanks to everyone for listening.
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Hello, and welcome to the TechDirt Podcast. I'm...
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at just about intermediary liability issues or maybe even just about section 2.
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just discussing yesterday as we're recording this we're discussing how we're adjusting our own comment spam filter and how that's going to work.
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And so it's the same discussion over and over again.
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sites and smaller companies involved I think is
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So for example, with Tira's content online, there was a file sharing site.
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by one person. You know, it's always the smallest platforms that get the most attacks or hits by bad actors who try to take advantage of the lack of moderation.
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and they had no idea even where to start nor the back.
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with or ability to figure out how to respond.
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We're really helping that, you know, with smaller platforms and smaller companies without the resources, we can at least help upskill people on their team.
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to be able to think about this even if it's a part-time function or be able to refer them to third parties if there's tools or resources that could be more immediately helpful.
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We can at least give them that first place they can go to.
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We've mentioned sort of obliquely a few times throughout this call, not just having the US perspective. Is the organization...
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mostly US focused or are you looking for international?
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members as well or what's the status on that.
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Out of our initial set of
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are US based but you know in some of the large companies where we're definitely including all of their global teams as well.
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So I will flag that because we are members focused and the professionals themselves are really important to us and we want to make sure that we are serving their needs.
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We'll probably be doing a bunch of community calls just to get a sense of what the community feels we need to prioritize. So that's really important.
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of companies to bring to the organization and get their employees on boarded as members of the association.
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But what's really exciting about that is that we'll be able to onboard companies that otherwise wouldn't have had the available funding and budget to come on board.
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one of the goals that we have is to make the community as broad as possible.
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kind of asking larger companies to kind of pay it forward for the smaller companies which
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have done very, very generously, but just being able to expand the concept of, you know, the understanding of the concept.
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of trust and safety is really important so hopefully we'll be able to bring on some smaller groups that you know otherwise wouldn't have
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had the ability to participate. So inclusion is really important to us. And I know that there's a lot of buzzwords around inclusion today.
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And we want to make it possible for even smaller voices to join the, you know.
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join the conversation even though right now from the outside it looks like the conversation is very much dominated by certain companies.
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whatever and the smaller voices don't matter.
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all this. And I think that's really frustrating. And obviously, a lot of these questions are
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super important. I mean, you know, even I said like as a tiny site.
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you know, we sort of came across and we still deal with we're actually just
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And so I point people to listen to that all the time. But you know.
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you know, are very thoughtful about this. And, you know, it's...
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you know, just just you know consideration that people put into these decisions and the assumptions
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that people make about it's, you know, the sort of like off the cuff thing.
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and thank you for your service.
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and thornier ahead, you know, there's always room for new training.
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improvement which is where you know we're hoping we can really continue to build off of making resources training everything much easier.
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We can both share a couple of things that we're cooking up. One particular program we're developing is across the safety boot camp.
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which is, you know, just to help.
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professional small backgrounds, sometimes people come from different parts of the company and enter into a trust and safety role to be able to learn the basics of, you know, what sector.
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months and start piloting with a couple of members to figure out what that initial bootcamp training looks like.
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any company is hiring for your notice that sometimes the requirements are quite murky or
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And that comes from the recognition that it's really hard to find people and verify the no-trust-ency.
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for anyone to kind of get their their knee deep into basic concepts.
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Adelaide, any other programs we can share.
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because we should be having intelligent, meaningful,