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**Shiya Lou:** Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** \[11:54\] I'm thinking to myself as you're saying that, "Who does that matter most to?" It's almost like when you say accessibility to the web, if I don't have an application that has a lot of users who maybe have accessibility problems - and language is definitely one of them - to me it's like, for... |
This message you're sharing about the language barrier, about being able to tap into the large China audience - who does that come up most to? Is it developers? Obviously when someone like Facebook builds what they built, their network, they're gonna think, "Well, we should probably make it as accessible to anybody in ... |
**Shiya Lou:** I think for us as a company - Autodesk has a lot of customers and partners in China. However, a lot of the engineering teams are in the U.S., so when they were developing, in the beginning they weren't thinking about these users in China. So if you're not thinking about the China market, it's fine... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** That's what I mean. If it's not a part of your business model... Not that it doesn't matter, by any means, but if it's not my focus... |
**Shiya Lou:** Right, yeah. If you already have customers in China, then you should be thinking about them. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** But see, personally it is of interest to me, because I had never considered it; we run podcasts. I want everybody to listen to it. Now, naturally I speak English, that's my primary language, so I don't think it'd be worth it to me to have my podcast translated... However, we could transcript them - ... |
For someone like me, who uses Fastly as our CDN, which is a US-based company, what would happen if someone goes to Changelog.com? Our servers are Linode servers, they're based in the United States, our CDN is an international CDN... How would someone from China be impacted by going to Changelog.com? Would they be able ... |
**Shiya Lou:** They would be able to. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** We don't force them to use Facebook, we don't use Google CDN... We have our own CDN. |
**Shiya Lou:** Okay, cool. Well, any server that's outside of the borders is gonna be a bit slower than servers that are within the borders. So you're looking at a page load time of a couple seconds instead of milliseconds. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Yeah, milliseconds, for sure. We focus on speed. |
**Shiya Lou:** Yeah. Then you definitely would need to have servers in China. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Plus, we built the website just for fun. We built it in Elixir, which is known to be pretty fast, because it sits on top of the Erlang VM, and we used Phoenix the web framework, and we purposefully used a smaller JavaScript footprint. We purposely didn't use frameworks that would have more than we n... |
So for people like us, or people that aspire to be like us, to have that kind of focus, with speed and our own CDN, what can they get right, I guess? Using our own CDN, that's obviously helpful, but you've mentioned the speed barrier... What's the speed roughly for outside of the borders? I'm just curious. |
**Shiya Lou:** \[16:02\] It really depends on the weather. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** It depends on the weather, okay... |
**Shiya Lou:** I have no idea what the speed is in terms of the different servers, because it actually really changes depending on events, political events in the country, sometimes. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Wow... So this is a human thing. Like, some human is doing this. You said the weather, but it's really... It's the winds, but it's the political winds, so to speak. |
**Shiya Lou:** Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So if I care about the China market, the internet, and I wanna be open to those users there, those developers there, when you think about speed - that's one thing. |
**Shiya Lou:** Right. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I'm sure the winds change, that happens, but aside from making a performant site, what else can I do to be mindful of the speed barrier? |
**Shiya Lou:** So the best thing to do is always have a server within China, but it is very difficult, actually. For example, AWS just got its license in China, and to deploy on AWS you need to be a registered company in China, and have all your paperwork ready. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** A small business is hard enough. |
**Shiya Lou:** Yes, exactly, and it's very difficult to incorporate something in China. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So you're not making it any easier. |
**Shiya Lou:** Yeah, I'm sorry... \[laughs\] |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Wouldn't it be easier - devil's advocate of me saying this, but wouldn't it be just easier to get rid of the firewall? |
**Shiya Lou:** Yeah, well there's a lot of... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** What's the purpose of it? Was it the people of China voting for this thing or desiring it, or was it something else? Maybe this is a whole different subject you don't wanna go into, but just share what you can share about what we could do about it. Will it ever go away, I guess, is probably the bigg... |
**Shiya Lou:** People in China can't really vote for it... We can't vote. It started in 2008 mainly because we were using Facebook and Twitter to incite protests, and they sometimes become pretty violent. That was in 2008. Afterwards, it just got expanded and any company - for example Google - who would not cooperate w... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Well, you've got your own version of it, right? You said Baidu...? |
**Shiya Lou:** Baidu, yes. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay. And then you've got Bing - good job, Microsoft! What other search options do you have? |
**Shiya Lou:** There's this company called 360 Search, this company called [Sogou](https://www.sogou.com/), and there's a bunch of companies making their own search solutions. My personal experience is that they never really compare to Google, no matter how good they are, maybe because once Google went out of China the... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** To make it better. That's a good example of having a really good user experience (I'm air quoting); I think Google has a good user experience, but I think that there obviously are some biases where if you compare the results from other engines that you might like those better, but I've always, in a ... |
\[20:12\] Let's flip it around then, let's talk about China to the outside. Your talk is on how China does Node, and I think what you're talking around is what we're been sharing here - the speed issues, the language barriers, educating developers on how to better think about using certain web services to communicate t... |
**Shiya Lou:** I have noticed that the services and websites and apps that I use that have all the servers in China are a bit slower outside of China than within. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** But accessible though. |
**Shiya Lou:** Yeah, accessible. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Okay. So there's no blocking out, it's just filtering what comes in. |
**Shiya Lou:** Yes. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** So I guess, since we're talking here, we're at Node Interactive, this series we're doing here is called The Future Of Node JS, talking about the future of Node... For those out there listening, these are people who are either in the ecosystem already, developers in the Node ecosystem, and they want ... |
**Shiya Lou:** Cnpm I think actually stands for private, or company npm. It actually doesn't stand for China, it stands for Company npm. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** I had that wrong... I just made an assumption. |
**Shiya Lou:** I didn't know until a few days ago either, actually. I've just been using it... |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Wow... Okay. So it's a mirror of npm, right? |
**Shiya Lou:** The registry, yes. |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Right. And there's a little bit of latency, a couple hours... |
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