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only because, horrible though he is, he's so normal. all the others seem just strange enough. they may do something horrible and bizarre.
N
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Male
biden probably would be pretty predictable in establishment. and it's, of course, a very sad thing when you've sunk so low, you're disappointed biden is out of the race.
D
4
2.2
4.2
183
Male
he would have just given into [inaudible 00:00:04], i think he would have [flip-flopped 00:00:05] on everything that he was bad about in the past.
C
4.166667
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Male
[crosstalk 00:00:010] is a disgusting drug warrior, who gets almost no credit for that.
D
6.058824
2.529412
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Female
[crosstalk 00:00:14] is just like handsome and is always like touching people, and it's just really great for some reason.
X
5.2
4.4
5.2
116
Female
[crosstalk 00:00:22].well, in addition to being relatively ordinary, which yeah, biden does kind of give you that blue-collar, sit-down..
N
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Male
.. kind of atmosphere. but the other thing about biden that he had in his favor was..
X
4.4
4.4
4.8
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Male
he was already a joke. i mean, he was already the onion's running joke.
A
5.416667
2.166667
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Male
who's already a joke before they even to get into office, then all the.
C
5.2
2.6
5.2
182
Male
..fighting against the tide, the way it is now with obama, where he still even just a bit untouchable,
C
5.4
3.4
5.4
182
Male
..the comedians, the people who would satirize any other politician in that position, they still..
A
5.181818
3
5.272727
182
Male
go after obama. he's still untouchable.
X
6.181818
2.363636
5.909091
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Male
in drinking [inaudible 00:01:14] on the riding lawn mower, on the white house lawn.
C
5.315789
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Male
maybe i'm like politics version of a movie star for me to think of him that way, maybe i'm getting it wrong.
H
6.2
5
5.8
116
Female
he has that gleaming grand and stuff and he always seems a bit painted.
H
5.2
3.4
5.4
116
Female
but who among the republicans, you know, has this sort of most normal..
N
4
3.4
3.6
184
Male
you know, sort of sober sense that, you know, to obtain this kind of office to get the mandate and not do crazy things.
N
2.8
3.8
4
184
Male
i mean, it seems to me, i mean, [inaudible 00:01:53] is interesting and i'm interested in, in a way. but it seems to me among the whole crop it's jeff.
N
4.5
4.333333
4.333333
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Male
i mean, even jeff's the one you can sit down and shoot the breeze with, i mean that..
H
5
5.090909
5.272727
182
Male
is rooting, i didn't know we were analyzing..
H
5.2
4.2
4.6
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Female
..me as just the normal guy. i guess the normal guy does tend to get the nomination. romney, that checks out. the really strident..
X
5.380952
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116
Female
apparently he's a stepford candidate, he's not the normal guy. he was this robot..
C
6.076923
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182
Male
..entirely on sympathetics around me. i was probably wrong, but i, there was a part of me that just, part of the capitalist me, it was..
N
5
3.6
5
184
Male
another pessimistic thought, i found myself during the romney thing worrying, what if we look back years from now and say that's as good as it ever got.
F
5
2.2
5.6
183
Male
that was the last capitalistic nominee, either major party ever had..
N
3.4
3.8
4
183
Male
well, that reminds me of a really depressing matt welsh piece from like last year, where he talks about basically, libertarians..
N
4.833333
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Female
maybe obama is sort of good in certain ways. [crosstalk 00:03:09] and it was really..
X
4.2
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Female
that might be true. i mean, we, i tend to think, i look, you know that i, i lived through the 90's. none of the rest of you did, but i did.
X
5.166667
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Male
and i remember meeting clinton, like hating him, like every day. oh, clinton, horrible.
C
4.4
2.7
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Male
[inaudible 00:03:27] he left office, i couldn't exactly remember why.
U
5
3.4
4.4
184
Male
that's good though, because that's our job. like it's our job is to hate them all.
C
5
2
4.8
116
Female
and not even a [inaudible 00:03:37], he use the issue by thinking that they're bad people because that's basic, nearly irrelevant..
O
5.6
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Female
is that they're going to be given a hideous amount of power, and i hear you slack of accountability and we know what happens with that. so it is our job to hate them all.
A
5.727273
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Female
with obama, i mean, this is why i'm worried that, i mean, we're going to look back and go, wow, he was awesome.
H
5
4.727273
4.818182
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Male
that was kind of welsh's argument, and it was at least partially true..
N
5
3.75
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116
Female
of looking back, saying obama was fairly centrist.
N
3.2
3.8
3.8
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Male
as i think all presidents kind of have to be because it's the one office that has to appeal in theory to a majority of the whole country instead of just one crazy partisan district.
N
3.6
4
4.4
183
Male
but i did find myself trying to remember just a few days ago, why i hated bill clinton in the 90's.
C
4
4
4.2
183
Male
and there actually was a lot there to hate. although it's easy to forget, because a lot of it didn't really have a big impact.
N
4
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Male
but as, as i think david bowes from kyoto pointed out..
N
4
4
4.666667
183
Male
clinton rattled off more spending proposals faster in his speeches than any prior president in history.
C
3
2.8
4.8
183
Male
like at sometimes faster than one per minute, he would rattle off new program ideas.
X
4.916667
5
4.833333
183
Male
the juncture in history, when everyone should have been pushing to say, communism has collapsed, free markets should be the new dominant ideology in [inaudible 00:05:00]
N
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Male
i think a lot of libertarians should have been saying that more stridently but, that's a separate issue-
X
4
3.5
4.166667
183
Male
at precisely the time we should have been pushing to make hardcore free market principles the new ideology-
N
5
4.4
4.8
183
Male
i remember clinton and a lot of his cronies were saying, it's time for a third way. socialism's failed but, we don't want to go to full fledged capitalism. we can forge a middle path and stuff like that.
N
4.6
4.2
4.8
183
Male
and of course, clinton picks all that up from tony blair. one of the most vile, reptilian figures on the-
C
5.111111
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Male
that is true about clinton. and i think the reason we all now, in retrospect think of, hey, the clinton years weren't so bad-
N
5.4
4.6
5
182
Male
was because of everything he wanted to do that didn't pass.
O
4.8
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5
182
Male
and frankly, [inaudible 00:06:53] never goes down but, it did slow under clinton.
C
5.2
4.6
5
182
Male
more than it did under reagan and more than it did under the two bushes. and certainly more on than it-
N
4
3.8
3.8
182
Male
obama. there's something to be said for the fact that yes, he was distracted by monica lewinsky and the blue dress and all that and-
N
4
3.4
4.2
182
Male
wound up in his second term being a foreign policy president, like all the ones in the past have been, intersecting in terms where they can't get any thing through congress-
X
4.2
2.8
3.4
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Male
and yeah. hhe did bad things then because they were lobbing bombs at aspirin factories in iraq and-
C
5.461538
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Male
we're getting involved in air wars in kosovo-
D
4.2
2.6
4.4
182
Male
but domestically, he couldn't get his agenda through. that's why, in retrospect, he succeeded because he failed.
C
4.4
3.8
4
182
Male
in fairness to the clintons, i suppose they do have a lot of corporatist instincts as opposed to socialist instincts and sometimes, that's a slight imposing-
C
4.2
3.4
4.4
183
Male
i think in some ways, hillary clinton will be the culmination of the whole 100 year progressive plan-
N
3.2
4.8
5
183
Male
in that if you look back at the original progressive's, they didn't think of themselves as full fledged socialists. they really did want a partnership between big government and big business.
N
3.6
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5.4
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Male
and it took a while, but they got it. they won.oh well.
C
4.4
2.8
4.4
183
Male
i have a whole topic about how horrible the progressive's were in so many things that piss me off about the history books, even i read as a homeschooler. jack, you were saying. go.
A
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Female
i have, well, several things. i'm curious about how, how todd would distinguish the progressive's from the from the interwar fascists.
N
4.8
3.8
4.8
184
Male
my impression is that there's definitely a distinction between the left progressive's and the right fascists.
N
3.4
3.6
3
184
Male
and exactly how that plays itself out in history. i don't entirely understand but, there was something franklin said that i thought was really interesting about the clinton years-
N
3.6
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3.8
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Male
that the freedom such as the laws of the 90's, came about not because anybody intended it but, because there was a gridlock.
N
4.2
3.8
4.8
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Male
that nobody's agenda could get passed because, there was too much conflict and they were canceling each other out. as a result-
O
3.6
2.8
3.6
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Male
the result was a lower budget deficit, some increases in freedom. there was welfare reform and otherwise-
N
3.333333
3.833333
3
184
Male
your comment triggered something in my mind. i think that sometimes libertarian's forget the history of liberty itself.
C
3.6
3.4
4.4
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Male
which is, it's not that, it's not like in europe in the 16th, 17th century, anybody came to power or who believes in liberty-
N
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Male
the reason we got liberty... i'm drawing here mainly on ralph fraco and some of my other teachers.
N
3.6
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Male
the reason we had liberty was not because anybody attended it. it's because there was a competition between powers, and they checked each other.
N
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4.2
184
Male
and they were so subverted in their aspirations that they...
N
4.2
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Male
the default was that people were allowed to about their business.
N
3.333333
3.5
3.666667
184
Male
it's a dangerous game, i feel like, even if it sometimes works out that way. i mean, well, yeah. god, i have to mull that over a lot.
N
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3.2
4
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Female
from some libertarian leaning, political scientists have argued that's a safer bet, that actually gridlock tends to work out better...
X
3.4
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4
183
Male
...than those who claim they're ideologically aligned to the market. it's actually a safer bet betting on grid.
N
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Male
... it's a fascinating... to me, it's a fascinating time, because it means we're...
N
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Male
... if we're seeking somebody at the top who agrees with us, that's actually the wrong point of view.
N
3.2
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3.4
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Male
we should be seeking multifarious powers competing with each other and...
N
3.4
3.8
3.8
184
Male
... the gridlock that results is the most compatible to human liberty. i mean that's a facet, to me, that's very interesting.
U
4.6
5.6
5
184
Male
my skin crawls that you get so many liberals over the past however many years it's been, again, i can't do math right now...
C
4.833333
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Female
... obama, they're whining about obstructionist congress who just wants to stop whatever obama wants to do and...
X
5.727273
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Female
... they have absolutely no memory for, "gee, wouldn't an obstructionist congress have been swell in 2001 so we didn't get the patriot act, or 2003 so we didn't get the war in iraq?"
D
4.666667
2.833333
5.166667
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Female
they literally can't remember that far back, because it's an all-or-nothing kind of game to people who actually have a dog in the fight that they truly do support.
N
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Female
and those people are terrible, and i don't know what to do with them.
X
6
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6
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Female
i think i'm a little bit sympathetic to jeb [crosstalk 00:01:21] because he doesn't have a big agenda...
X
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Male
... and i like that. he seems to have been groomed... i like to think of him as being like a hapsburg, you know?
H
4.6
5
4.2
184
Male
sharing in the hemophilia, and such.
S
5.684211
1.947368
3.631579
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Female
governing competence from his family members, right?
N
3.2
4.2
3.6
183
Male
i was almost hoping for just the honesty of a clinton v bush match...
A
4.909091
3.363636
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Female
... because then you'd just be like, "lookit. this is what we have right here. who cares? oligarchy for everybody because nobody cares."
A
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Female
well, can i ask, what is the scenario under which bush actually wins a nomination? i mean...
C
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Male
... today everybody's writing him off as if he's dead.
X
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Male
i mean, is anybody optimistic about this? can i say optimistic?
O
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Male
i think iowa is out of reach for him right now. i'm not sure it was ever in reach.
X
3.666667
3.666667
3.833333
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Male
he would have to pull some, sort of, hail mary in either new hampshire or south carolina...
X
4.4
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182
Male
... and it's really hard to see right now.
X
3.4
3
4.2
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Male
i will say, i could imagine him winning by default, still, if each of the other candidates says something utterly psychotic, which is entirely possible.
C
3.636364
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Male
by how, what definition? i mean, my god.
A
5.909091
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Female
the problem is i'm not sure that the median republican voter isn't ready for psychotic.
C
5
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Male