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but from an everyday person who's participating in this ecosystem.
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they want the affiliation with an ipo-.
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these tokens can be used for pretty much anything.
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i think a really good case study for looking at icos and how-.
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so, ethereum in late 2014-.
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actually, in earlier 2014, they were toying with the idea of how to actually make this platform a reality. and they were looking at a lot of different funding mechanisms-.
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with an equity token. then that discussion changed rather abruptly.
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the ethereum foundation was born in zug, switzerland. and it was incorporated as a nonprofit.
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was it sold tokens of ether as a pre-sale of software.
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so, this has become not only a model for successful fundraising, but also a repeatable model.
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and then, ethereum has gotten a lot of buying from a lot of large traditional industry players, and i think it's great. and i-.
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participated in the ethereum presale, and i really like the platform. so, this isn't a negative-.
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so, i think that's one of the reasons why now we're seeing so many icos. and i for one, i don't
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know about any of you, but i get asked at least a few times a month to be a consultant on a new ico project.
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they are just flooding my inbox. when i go to conferences.
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i'm asked. crowds of people are saying, "hey, i'm working on this ico project, i'm-.
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on this project and we plan to ico in the next month, in the next two months."
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that said, really it depends on how these tokens are being marketed, and how people view what their role will be and what they can do with these-.
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.it's amazing seeing the proliferation of these icos, but also you look at them and i guess maybe this is me being the lawyer, but you look at-.
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and you go, "what are you actually offering people?"
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but my favorite ico is pansycode.win.
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basically it is all the things that we as lawyers hate about icos put together in a really, really-.
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similarly, they've got their typical ico website which lists fraudulent economics and not quite blockchain.
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i totally agree. i think that one thing we haven't touched on yet is how hungry the market is and how one of the plus sides of-
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you have to be an accredited investor in order to invest in most of the new and up and coming-
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... companies. and this blows the lid off of that in a global way.
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some other cryptocurrency, right? because typically they don't accept anything else-
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and i think it's interesting to explore the why those barriers are there-
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... in light of the internet and the proliferation of information and the availability of information-
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i think maybe these sorts of barriers could be revised.
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and i think this provides a good opportunity to do that.
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yeah, no. i think that's actually a really good point that you raise.
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is that fundamentally this shows there is a lack of capital in the market, and people need capital to be able to build platforms and programs and-
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... investing in a program, but as i think alex said-
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... piece of data, piece of music, pebble watch kind of way, well-
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... as this music improves in value, that there's more to come back to me.
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... because i think with anything that looks like-
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... people are going to think they're buying into the promise of yes, a risk.
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if there is nothing happening in the background that actually supports that expectation-
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just thinking about how the human beings respond to the purchase of something.
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i'm really interested in this idea of secondary markets and the idea that everything-
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i remember when my family was really into beanie babies. do you-
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... tiny stuffed animal and while it might be super cute-
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the secondary market was really the catalyst for a lot of those purchases and-
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... the law is very good when we are directed, and we're doing things in-
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... a very clear and square and consistent way, like most of us lawyers like to do things.
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when these things cross boundaries and cross borders-
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i think often regulation isn't in a position to handle that because if it's unfor-
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so, my point was going to be that yes, we-
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okay? we wouldn't have the internet and there's something new and what a lot of people worried about is that the law's stifling innovation and one of the-
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... crypto valley and now apparently-
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and i know that it's one of the things that peter met would say, they're worried about in the states, they-
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...the ecc cutting back and for the ico, blockchain capital
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..had to go do it in singapore, and then they could do some in the us, but it was limited to 99 us investors. so it's a us company having
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so i just think it's applying existing framework or thinking to something new is quite damaging.
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and that might be completely divorced from their physical presences.
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..incorporate and not serve us clients. and the reason is because of the regulatory hurdles-
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..basically unlike elsewhere in the world where no one wants to deal with, this in the us-
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...everyone wants to claim jurisdiction. and so it's really confusing.
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..particularly for those that are looking to ico-
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..state and federal laws to deal with. and so from a business risk-
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..perspective, it often makes more sense for them to simply incorporate outside of the us and exclude us customers.
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so i think it's interesting that as i travel around the world-
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...really excited about san francisco, and not that i don't love san francisco as well-
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..don't know, again it's kind of questions rather than answers.
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you know a geo locator couldn't exclude me from the sale, so-
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..so then are we necessarily requiring identity to be tied in with all these icos and what are-
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..for the implications of that, and what are the implications of having startups in this space?
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so i'm now an e-citizen of estonia. i-
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..have actually registered. it only took me about three days to get approved, and i could now set up a business in estonia. i could use the estonian-
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..company that i've incorporated as the vehicle to do those purchases for me-
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..the geo locator. and this is a really good point cause-
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...and we know who your computer is. we know where you are and you are excluded or please note you are bound by australian law-
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..estonia. and i think that's going to become a bigger issue because i think it's... estonia's not alone in setting this up.
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there's been no move to-
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the expense. it's expensive to do that.
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because if they're insolvent or out of the jurisdiction-
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..most lawyers will say "this isn't worth pursuing."
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alex's point i think is really important that we're a little bit too old fashioned in the way that we regard the law.
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..for failure to meet whatever your obligations were you-
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i don't know that anyone's working on actionable smart contracts for that.
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and i think it's a bit worrying when these ico-
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we're not ready to do that. if they're not ready to take responsibility.
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they're really not ready to set up the crowdfunding project.
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actually really an interesting point that when the arbitral clauses have to be set up at the time which you set up the venture at the time, which you-
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..the contract, and i have heard people say the past-
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..but arbitration's great for blockchain disputes. they're-
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..they don't realize that arbitration isn't jurisdiction.
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..and you're completely right. as you're setting it up-
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think about what, unfortunately where you're going to have to deal with disputes when things are-
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..and arbitration i think actually is the right way of doing it.
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..we know off the call and i'll be happy to add you.
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..arbitration clause builder, and of course they have lots of disclaimers that say you shouldn't use this if you're not a lawyer and consult with your lawyer.
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but for people who want to see what a clause might look like-
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also they have an international rules body, and you can select international as well.
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for those of you who have clients or students who are interested in what could this look like and kind of demystifying what arbitration might look like-
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the other thing i think that would be really useful, just trying to think about automating this as much as possible and-
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..leaving humans out of it when things do go wrong-
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and i would imagine, just thinking about the way civil litigation works-
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..or disputes, and then what you could say is we're going to automate what happens if this dispute arises.
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