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... | how you explain this to your kids. |
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... | It's tough. |
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... | one other thing, which we'll talk about, but the work I do here in New York. |
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... | But that's not true. He's a human being. |
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... | so they can recover to get them back into the blood and guts, of course. But... |
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... | You were just listening to Angela Vogel, organizer with the Philadelphia Drivers Union, and George Gonzales, a gig worker with Instacart and Uber. And that does it for this edition of Make It. |
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... | contact. And we want to hear from you. What do you think about gig work and coronavirus? Join the conversation on Facebook. Our Twitter handle is making underscore contact on an Instagram |
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... | Hello and welcome to the TechDirt Podcast. |
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0... | Mike Nasnik. |
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... | lives, the uncertainty of it all is perhaps... |
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... | Well, for me at least the most annoying part. And I think that most people recognize that at some point, we will certainly... |
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... | pandemic. And right now about the only thing that people can say is that technology is going to play a major role |
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... | It's just the basic tools for online meetings or just the fact that so many of us are now working from home thanks to various technologies. And we're seeing some big shit. |
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... | called telemedicine, which has been talked about for ages. |
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... | day. So today on the podcast we have |
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... | Julie Samuels, the executive director of TechNYC, who we've had on the podcast a few times in the past as well. |
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... | And that's so interesting to me because you mentioned AB5 and these laws in New Jersey and Massachusetts. |
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... | That's exactly right, and the enforcement has always been the question, and I think that 85 really proved that. |
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... | But you will hear from drivers in any state that they have filed complaints with their departments of labor, that they have filed complaints with their attorney general. |
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... | that they haven't filed a complaint anywhere that someone can file a complaint to have employment classification enforced and that there's a total lack of action. |
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... | Angela, are there laws being developed on the national level that would protect drivers and gig workers? |
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... | like domestic workers. What's been challenging about organizing gig workers? |
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... | And I think that these are, if we go deeper in U.S. labor union history and look at, like you mentioned, domestic workers. |
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... | And to end the show, we want to highlight this sort of new and visionary work and also talk about what still needs to change. |
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... | Okay, so Angela, first off, let's talk about the gig economy pre-COVID-19 and how that's affected the situation many drivers are in now. |
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... | lack of good paying jobs, and many, many people turned to app-based work. |
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... | So you talked about, I think you called it employee designation. Can you talk about that more? What does that mean? What's a contract worker? |
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... | So for example, our right to have the company that pays us pay into our unemployment insurance to pay stipends for health. |
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... | What happens with app-based work is that we don't have a manager standing there checking whether or not we came to work on time or not. Many workers believe that just... |
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... | that that makes them an independent contractor. Apps have clouded the amount of control. |
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... | us to do. So the argument has always been that Uber and Lyft drivers are actually employees and that those companies exert a lot of control over our work. |
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... | Right, and that makes me wonder how much does an average driver actually make in a year? Is that data out there? |
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... | So like we are constantly telling our regulatory agencies and legislators here in Pennsylvania, you know, legislators often use the lack of access to data as a reason. |
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... | why they cannot go to Uber and lift and hold them accountable. We're constantly trying to remind them that data is here. I can open up my app right now and tell you exactly how. |
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... | I made over what hours and we can figure average expenses for the average mile in the average vehicle. The IRS does it every year. So the data is out there. |
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... | able to get the test to verify that and in that case they would not be eligible for the paid sick leave. |
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... | co-worker had just caught coronavirus and that they had to send them home. So about three days later I started getting a really bad cough and it turned into a pretty violent fever. |
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... | I checked my temperature it was 103.7 but it is by far the most sick I've ever been which led me to sleep in my car |
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... | And I eventually went to the ER. They did not want to test me for COVID because they said, well, it's been two and a half weeks. There's no point of giving you a. |
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... | test. Now I reached out to Uber, I reached out to Lyft to see if they were willing to help me get a test. They did not help me at all. |
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... | happen if myself or my daughter |
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... | You were just listening to Chris Benner from the Department of Environmental Studies and Sociology at UC Santa Cruz and the Institute for Social Transformation. You were also listening to George Gonzalez. |
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... | and get behind the scenes information on our website, radioproject.org. |
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... | Welcome back. If you're just joining us, we're taking a look at gig workers and how they're doing during COVID-19. |
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... | And from our guests in the first half, we mostly heard that they're not doing well. They feel like they've been working with that much support under very dangerous circumstances, and they're vulnerable. |
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... | because they're not considered employees. They're considered contract workers, which kind of means they're on their own. Now, one of the interesting developments in the past few years in many states is the past, |
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... | These lots have passed because of organizing, organizing by drivers and other gig workers. |
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... | We wanted to talk with one such organizer. My name is Angela Vogel. I am a driver and organizer with Philadelphia Drivers' Union. |
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... | wearing masks. George have you contacted the app companies for help with things like masks and gloves? Yes, yes I have reached out to Lyft, I have reached out to Uber and I have reached out to |
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... | Instacart. In all three circumstances it's become pretty much impossible. Instacart last week finally allowed me to request an order and that was |
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... | Last Friday in Oakland, they were distributing hand sanitizer and masks. I'm in Sacramento right now because there's no work for me in the Bay Area and I couldn't drive. |
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... | an hour, 30 minutes just to go get hand sanitizer. So I had to pass up on that. So I called and I stayed on the phone. |
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... | that we're looking out for our community, that is something that we're doing out of the kindness of our hearts. That is just not something that Uber is doing for them. |
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... | So we reached out to about 10 app companies seeking their comments, but we didn't hear back from them in time. We did however go on their websites to check on the new cro- |
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... | and some drivers had already gotten ill from transporting sick passengers. |
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... | So we asked Chris what motivated people in his study to keep driving, but we also wanted to know what motivated them to stop driving, given all the economic repercussions of the country. |
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... | make it possible economically to do it. And second is because of course they're afraid of getting exposed to the virus. And I should mention that. |
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... | And you know, ride-hailing drivers in particular are particularly vulnerable because they're giving rides to a lot of people who are traveling, so coming in from different parts of the country. |
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... | really any data in the country that I know of that gives a breakdown of infection by occupation. We have some data from health workers, but other than that, really not much. |
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... | But we know with the limits in testing that there are many, many people who have had COVID-19 or have it now, including with very serious symptoms who are not. |
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... | We have a question in the survey that asks people, you know, whether they have enough resources to handle an emergency expense of only 400. |
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... | we're not getting tipped very well and that ends up putting us in circumstances where we're making well below minimum wage |
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... | right now because I have to work more hours to make less and my kids are not able to go to school right now so just finding the time to help them with their home. |
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... | I'm having to pay for more food. All of this is going down at a time where I'm making less than I've ever made, I think. |
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... | my future and you know there's no shame in it but it's definitely something that my family has counted on. There's a lot of things right now that are not getting paid. |
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... | difficult to access. Large portion of people have no health insurance either about 17% in the most recent survey. |
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... | space that makes them very vulnerable in the current context. |
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... | Finally for unemployment seems like a heavy tackle. It's taking a lot of people a long time to get their income. I know that numbers are not guaranteed. And furthermore, there's... |
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... | Uber is just one of those difficult things that make it very hard when applying for any kind of help because we are independent contractors. So maybe that's lack of... |
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... | a good job trying to navigate us toward these healthcare options. |
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... | For George, it's too much of a gamble to try and wait for unemployment or other benefits to kick in. He'd rather work now while he's still able to, even if his- |
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