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**Kristina Owen:** Yeah, the actual ideas in the book are very simple, but it's hard to -- that simplicity that's at the other side of complexity that some people talk about... You have simple that's kind of naive, and then you have this complexity that feels very satisfying, and getting beyond that complexity is reall... |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, very cool. Let's talk about conferences a little bit, because it's kind of been a launchpad for you, at least in your public career. Here we are at a conference, OSCON... You used to be scared and had to step out on the ledge to give a talk; over time, you've probably now done talks many times, y... |
**Kristina Owen:** The most important thing is meeting people, having real conversations. Not those fleeting, "Oh, hey... What do you do? I program. Me too! We have so much in common!", but to actually be able to say, "Oh yeah, you work on this project - what's hard about it? What's interesting about it?" Those convers... |
**Jerod Santo:** Right, a more round picture of people. |
**Kristina Owen:** Yeah, and I think that's a valuable thing, because suddenly these tenuous relationships become important in other ways. It's like, "Oh, we suddenly are going to be working on a very similar thing, and I have experiences and you have experiences, and we can trade, and it's gonna be useful." |
**Jerod Santo:** There's a lot of people that go to conferences and they find that getting past the shallow, "Hi, how are you?"/shake the hand, it's very difficult. You're a quiet person, you're kind of shy, and yet you seem to have relationships with conferences - maybe because just because you do it so much, and beca... |
**Kristina Owen:** Well, going to the talks is good, but it's kind of the least valuable part of a conference. |
**Jerod Santo:** Especially when they record them and put them online... You can watch it later. |
**Kristina Owen:** That, too. So the talks are interesting in particular because they can work as a conversation starter; you meet someone at the coffee stand and you're like, "Wow, what have you seen?" |
**Jerod Santo:** Yeah, it's a shared experience. |
**Kristina Owen:** Yeah, and then that's a launching point for trying to find that common ground where you can actually have a real conversation. Often, those real conversations happen in that edge of where technology meets human fear. |
**Jerod Santo:** I like that. |
**Kristina Owen:** \[24:03\] You're now talking about the vulnerability of being human and not being perfect, and not figuring this all out, and that's often where we can help each other in just having insights and sharing experiences. |
**Jerod Santo:** I would say it's worth it. It's worth stepping out a little bit. I have a tendency where if I have a lot of knowns in the place, I will just cling to them. |
**Kristina Owen:** Yeah... |
**Jerod Santo:** I always had friends in high-school or college, we'll go to a party, and if I have three buddies with me I'll just hang out with them the whole time. |
**Kristina Owen:** Yeah, I see people do that at conferences. I think it's a shame. |
**Jerod Santo:** Well, I kind of do, too. I kind of like coming to this conference by myself, because I don't really have a choice - I'm either the awkward one, standing by himself, or I go talk to somebody. So it kind of pushes me over my tendency to cling to the known, because there's no known here to cling to, which... |
Well, this has been a lot of fun. Closing thoughts, words of wisdom? |
**Kristina Owen:** No, I'm not wise. |
**Jerod Santo:** \[laughs\] You heard it here first - Katrina Owen, not wise. Check out 99 Books -- I keep calling it 99 Books... |
**Kristina Owen:** 99 Bottles of OOP. |
**Jerod Santo:** I call it 99 Problems, I called it 99 Books... 99 Bottles of OOP - check that out. Thanks for stopping by here at OSCON. |
**Kristina Owen:** Thanks for having me! |
\* \* \* |
**Adam Stacoviak:** Thanks again to our friends at O'Reilly for the awesome working partnership at OSCON London 2016. We'll see you again, OSCON, in 2017 in Austin, Texas. If you want to save some money on that ticket, if you're going, use the code "changelog20" to save 20% off your registration to OSCON 2017 in Austin... |
For more episodes like this head to changelog.com/spotlight, click Subscribe, don't miss a show, and thanks for listening! |
• Coby Chapple's background and where he lives |
• Product design role at GitHub: focus on workflows and interactions rather than visual design |
• Biggest single change made to the product: enabling web-based edits to files |
• Importance of creating shortcuts and streamlining processes for users |
• Enjoyment of long-term responsibility for products and seeing how they are used over time |
• Blurring of lines between UI/UX: Coby focuses on what needs to happen rather than labels or silos |
• Code review feature |
• Batching code reviews into a single conversation or document |
• Interface problems with batching code reviews |
• Designing complex technical products for technical users |
• Balance between approachability and technical complexity |
• Importance of discoverability in product design |
• Projects feature: flexible workflows, not dictating process to users |
• Product expansion with the introduction of "Projects" as a new tab/page |
• Relationship between Issues and Projects: flexible and not strictly tied to each other |
• Decision to associate Projects with the repo layer of abstraction, but planning for future changes to allow for multiple repos or organization-level projects |
• Impact on organizational hierarchy and potential for infinite nesting |
• Plans for improving and expanding Projects in the future |
• The concept of "sherlocking" where platform providers copy features created by third-party integrators |
• Projects API integration and the need for basic functionality with flexibility and adaptability |
• GraphQL API adoption, including GitHub's decision to use it and its benefits for developers and customers |
• Reducing risk through dependable APIs that minimize complexity and allow for predictable development and iteration |
• The benefits and challenges of implementing GraphQL for API functionality |
• Caching and performance considerations with GraphQL |
• GitHub Projects' design goals and target audience |
• Comparison to project management tools like Trello and Pivotal Tracker |
• Enterprise customers' needs and the importance of customization within organizations |
• Wrap-up of episode |
• Thanks to O'Reilly for working partnership at OSCON London 2016 |
• Upcoming OSCON event in Austin, Texas in 2017 |
• Discount code for registration: "changelog20" |
**Jerod Santo:** \[00:31\] Welcome to our first Spotlight series, recorded at OSCON London 2016. I'm Jerod Santo, managing editor at Changelog. Coby Chapple has been a product designer at GitHub since 2012. This conversation took place shortly after GitHub Universe, where they launched projects, transactional code revi... |
Coby drops a lot of knowledge bombs in this interview, so take a listen. |
\* \* \* |
**Jerod Santo:** So just tell us your name and where you hail from - like not from GitHub, but where you're from. |
**Coby Chapple:** Sure, so my name is Coby Chapple. I hail from New Zealand originally, but I also lived in Australia for a long time too, before moving to the U.K. I've lived around a few places in the U.K., I've lived in Northern Ireland and Scotland, and now I live in London. |
**Jerod Santo:** Oh boy, you're a world traveler. How does London measure up? |
**Coby Chapple:** It's a big city. |
**Jerod Santo:** I walked around yesterday with a friend who's local, and we just walked and walked and walked, four or five hours, and just kept seeing more London. |
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