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actually, just map out the process of sending and validating a message from one subnet to another.
X
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Unknown
Unknown
does that sound like something that would be up in your neck of the woods?
X
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Male
but i think the use cases are actually pretty understandable.
N
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Male
it's another thing to participate in a collaborative conversation and nut out those difficult bits that you just don't quite get.
X
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yeah, i know, obviously it was very rewarding.
X
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i guess if you're doing a phd, you do very interesting work and you can look into cool cryptographic protocols and things like that.
N
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Female
what's really cool about the finish is that we have a lot of technical challenges-
H
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... so you can imagine that this communication between subnet is a bit more difficult than if everything would be one gigantic blockchain.
N
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... what we call this chain key technology.
N
4
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Male
signed that message, or must have contributed to signing that message.
X
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Male
... now this we can use to allow subnets to communicate with each other.
N
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what would happen is that something in the blockchain triggers this canister, right?
N
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Female
... some type of message calls this canister-
N
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Female
now anybody with that, that basically is evidence that this subnet-
N
4.8
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Female
... one or a random one, and they might now say, "oh, yeah-"
N
4.6
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Male
... just like ingress messages coming from users.
N
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Male
that sounds profound, because for this to work, you have to have such a symphony of coordinated-
H
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Male
events. your subnet has to be interacting with all other subnets, at least some regular cadence.
N
4
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Male
well, i would've thought that the geographical location of all of the replicas in a subnet is not public knowledge.
N
4.4
3.8
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Unknown
Unknown
... all the time, or every 10 seconds, or every five seconds-
N
4.6
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Male
... works, right? this is a secure way for the different blockchains in the computer to communicate-
N
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... so there's some potential future improvements, i guess.
N
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right, and i suppose this is the whole idea of the-
N
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Female
... is that upgrades to the system can be ongoing, depending on the actual state of usage of-
N
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... and otherwise, it's actually relatively easy to make significant changes between replica versions.
X
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so, the governance system by the community can change the internet computer pretty drastically, and make it faster and better and-
H
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it also seems like quite a minimalist passive solution, where you are doing the bare minimum to facilitate this type of inter-subnet communication.
H
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... say, a queue or something like that for egress messages, right?
N
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Female
it started to make sense, because this is just one of those parts of the internet computer because there's so much to it.
N
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for me, it gives me pause for consideration-
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... a particular piece of software that you want to disrupt could-
N
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Female
but that would of course introduce latency and other performance issues.
N
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Female
so, all of these different qualities need to be balanced in the implementation depending on the-
N
4
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Female
yeah, i think one interesting thing here is also that because we have many different subnets-
N
4.8
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Female
... so there's another thing, we can kind of circle right to the start of this conversation and look a little bit at the way-
X
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Female
... and that the public key, that private key goes to is the chain key-
N
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Female
yeah, that's exactly right.so really, it sounds to me like chain key cryptography-
H
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it's not so much a new innovation, so much as it's a consequence of threshold relay randomness generation.
N
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we don't need that the key is constant.
X
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... and i think the key innovation that we made since then, when we started calling it the chain key cryptography, is when we decided to keep this publicly fixed at all-
N
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okay, now that they have this piece of sensitive information and they're outside the network-
X
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suppose the secret key is a number between zero and 10.
N
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now, if the two of us will be replicas on the subnet-
N
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okay, and they add up to five module 10. okay-
N
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... because i don't know your share. now maybe over time, somebody else comes in and we're going to have a third replica.
N
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for the listeners, because this is something that would trip me up and i had this same conversation a while ago, and i'm sort of recalling it. modular is-
H
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now, you can see the three of us have fresh secret keyshares, but-
N
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... combine that with the secret keyshare that you have now or-
N
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... then if we had some bad members in the past and some bad members now-
N
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how does that happen in a non-interactive fashion?
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or, we might want to reshuffle an existing key and give everybody new shares of an existing secret.
N
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i can basically choose a part of a secret key and say, "this is what i'm going to contribute to the secret key."
N
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can split that into pieces and give each replica a subnet. a piece of the secret key that i chose so that they add up to the right-
N
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only you should be able to view your share of the secret key and-
N
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right? that these pieces that i'm encrypting actually add up to the secret that i'm sharing.
X
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this is where a lot of zero-knowledge proofs comes in.
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this is all well-formed, and that if you were to decrypt your encryption, you would end up with a valid secret keyshare and i can prove this all-
N
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... many of them are doing a good job and give good randomness.
N
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actually very secure, and no one replica knows the secret.
N
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okay, wow, you just explained the distributed key generation thing, like-
H
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that's so cool. now, can we go through some of the other uses of this?
X
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yeah, so i think this concept of a single public key is useful in many areas.
N
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for example, imagine that you're a replica on the subnet-
N
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... because either you need to get the full history of the subnet, like the full blockchain-
N
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... processing new stuff. at the same time this-
N
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Female
but within this time, maybe the membership of the subnet changed.
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it would be very difficult to know how you can catch up to the latest states, and what to trust.
N
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... is fixed public key. we know that this key always remains the same, so-
N
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Female
... very easy to catch up to the latest states and start contributing again.
N
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Female
okay, so all you need is just the current state and the signature.
N
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... and securely jump to the latest state of a subnet and start contributing.
N
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Female
have your, say, ethereum smart contract there that you can access with that?
H
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Female
i think the other huge advantage of this chain key is just that it's very easy for anybody to verify anything from the internet computer.
X
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Female
the security comes from the fact that you have a full blockchain that you verify each step of the way, that you somehow look out for other block chains.
N
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Female
i feel sorry for the audience because this has been a bit more focused on updating arthur than maybe answering a list of questions so much.
H
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Female
the way threshold really works right, is you have your committee.
N
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that randomness is used to select the next committee. we're talking about this for the beacon chain, rather than the subjects.
N
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Female
i guess the power of the random beacon is that while it's unpredictable.
N
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Unknown
because these signatures are deterministic, and that means that the random beacon is unbiasable.
N
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Female
then you open yourself up to some attacks where you can bias things.
N
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i think i might not have any open questions personally about the internet computer.
H
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i have to hear it a bunch of times, before you can truly make sense of it.
N
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we're working on stability and performance.
N
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Female
and yeah, let's take a point of catching up again to dig into some of this more interesting stuff.
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together, they are part of a larger effort at ecosystem building. we are called.
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visit cycle dao dot x-y-z, to subscribe and learn more.
H
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i'm part of the team there and outed our co-founder is also part of the team there and we're big fans of [inaudible 00:01:30].
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of course, we were watching this project for years and we came across this article.
X
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we, of course saw their davis presentation and excited, but...
X
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and i was talking to [inaudible 00:01:45] and we were like, this is something that we could do.
N
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to develop that and give it a shot to survive in the real world, as a real thing. they said, "yeah, sure, we'll totally support you.
N
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we saw it developing more into community development tool. so still professional in many senses but...
N
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Male
not restricted to that and empowering users to create groups that they...
N
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govern themselves and have a lot of autonomy over and then build this communities, interact...
N
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Female
maybe let them merge and create this dynamic social dimension.
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so we are just building the tools that let them develop communities of any source.
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but they tend to enjoy more, smaller...
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the interesting thing i guess about social media and the web.
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world, which is global by default. right?
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it doesn't give us this more human experience.
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