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personal protective equipment such as masks, gloves, and disinfectant for millions of drivers would cost a lot of money-
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...but a company like uber for example, is valued at least $60 billion.
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so we reached out to about 10 app companies seeking their comments, but we didn't hear back from them in time. we did however go on their websites to check on the new corona-
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virus updates and many companies are slowly starting to distribute protective equipment. though, from the drivers we talked to, it seemed like they'd been waiting for a long time-
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and some drivers had already gotten ill from transporting sick passengers.
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so we asked chris what motivated people in his study to keep driving, but we also wanted to know what motivated them to stop driving, given all the economic repercussions?
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...make it possible economically to do it and second is because, of course they're afraid of getting exposed to the virus. and i should mention that-
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...ride hailing drivers in particular are particularly vulnerable because they're giving rides to a lot of people who are traveling. so coming in from different parts of the country-
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...really any data in the country that i know of that gives a breakdown of infection by occupation. we have some data from health workers but other than that, really not much.
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but we know with the limits in testing that there are many, many people who have had covid 19, or have it now including with very serious symptoms who are no-
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...not able to get the tests to verify that. and in that case they would not be eligible for the paid sick leave.
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his answer about the rate of covid infections among drivers stood out to me because i talked to george earlier, and here's what he said when i asked him if he was worried about getting sick.
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i believe that i probably had covid. i was really sick in march. so i had a passenger in the car who told me that her-
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...coworker had just caught coronavirus and that they had to send them home. so about three days later, i started getting a really bad cough and it turned into pretty violent fe-
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...fevers. when i checked my temperature, it was a 103.7, but it is by far the most sick i've ever been. which led me to sleep in my car,
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and i eventually went to the er, they did not want to test me for covid because they said "well, it's been two and a half weeks. there's no point of giving you-
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...a test." now i reached out to uber, i reached out to lyft to see if they were willing to help me get a test. they did not help me at all.
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the fact that i am at multiple grocery stores. i do about six runs every day, seven days a week. it is very scary and i am super afraid of what's go-
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...going to happen if myself or my daughter-
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you were just listening to chris benner from the department of environmental studies and sociology at uc santa cruz and the institute for social transformation. you were also listening to george gonzales,
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a driver for instacart and uber. we're talking about gig work and essential workers during covid 19 on today's making contact. make sure you keep up to date on our shows-
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...and get behind the scenes information on our website, radioproject.org.
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welcome back. if you're just joining us, we're taking a look at gig workers and how they're doing during covid 19.
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and from our guests in the first half, we mostly heard that they're not doing well. they feel like they've been working without much support under very dangerous circumstances. and they're vulnerable-
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...because they're not considered employees. they're considered contract workers, which kind of means they're on their own. now one of interesting developments in the past few years in many states, is a pa-
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...passage of laws designed to protect gig workers. so laws like ab5 in california and restrictions on who's considered a contract worker and-
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...these laws are passed because of organizing, organizing by drivers and other gig workers.
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we wanted to talk with one such organizer.my name is angela vogel. i am a driver and organizer with philadelphia driver's union-
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...and we are an all volunteer, all driver led union, specifically drivers that drive for uber and lyft.
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and to end the show, we want to highlight this sort of new and visionary work and also talk about what still needs to change.
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so angela, first off, let's talk about the gig economy pre covid 19, and how that's affected the situation many drivers are in now?
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...lack of good paying jobs. and many, many people turn to app base work.
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...in six weeks after losing their jobs for any kind of economic relief
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so you talked about, i think you called it employee designation. can you talk about that more? what does that mean? what's a contract worker?
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so, in the united states, many of our rights are connected to whether or not we are classified as an employee.
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so for example, our right to have the company that pays us pay into our unemployment insurance to pay stipends for healthcare-
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... what happens with app based work is that we don't have a manager standing there checking whether or not we came to work on time or not. and so, many workers believe that just-
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...because they don't have to punch a clock and have a physical manager there-
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...that, that makes them an independent contractor. apps have clouded the amount of control-
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...that many of these companies have over their workers. so in essence, the app itself creates control. so as soon as i log on, the app is telling me whether i did my job-
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..right based on the customer rating or whether or not i showed up on time and it's penalizing us or rewarding us for doing what the app wants-
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...us to do. so the argument has always been that uber and lyft drivers are actually employees and that those companies exert a lot of control over our work.
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and that makes me wonder how much does an average driver actually make in a year? is that data out there?
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so, like we are constantly telling our regulatory agencies and legislators here in pennsylvania, legislators often use the lack of access to data as a reason-
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...why they cannot go to uber and lyft and hold them accountable. we're constantly trying to remind them that data is here. i can open up my app right now and tell you exactly how mu-
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...much i need over what hours and we can figure average expenses for the average mile in the average vehicle. the irs does it every year. so the data is out there-
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...drivers, and it's work that should have been happening for years.
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and that's so interesting to me because you mentioned ab5 and these laws in new jersey and massachusetts-
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...and it's becoming very clear that just because a law exists, it doesn't mean it's being used.
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that's exactly right. and the enforcement has always been the question. and i think that ab5 really proved that.
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but you will hear from drivers in any state that they have filed complaints with their departments of labor, that they have file complaints with their attorney general-
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...that they haven't filed a complaint anywhere that someone can file a complaint to have employment classification enforced. and that there's a total lack of action.
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angela, are there laws being developed on the national level that would protect drivers and gig workers?
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there is definitely a national coalition of driver led organizations. i think at this time-
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...one of these states to sort of set an example as to what can be done federally when the political landscape is a little more conducive to that.okay.
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like domestic workers. what's been challenging about organizing gig workers?
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the biggest thing that i'm always trying to impart on trade union organizers is that in many trades, the work that they do, that the workers do,
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they're very proud of it and they build their identity around it. right? so if i'm talking to a steel worker or a nurse or a teacher, being a nurse or a teacher, or a steelworker is.
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part of their identity. the biggest challenge that we have with uber and lyft drivers, other than the high turnover is the lack of association with that identity, right?
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we do have quite a number of members where being a driver is really part of their identity, but because of this app-based gig type work.
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about what their experiences is driving, i also have to know why do they drive? what is it in their life that they need this flexibility in hours? that driving was the thing.
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that made sense. what is it that they are working towards, that they're willing to go out and risk their life to make $10 on a trip if they're lucky.
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and i think that these are, if we go deeper in u.s. labor union history, and look at, like you mentioned, domestic workers.
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and farm workers that we see that organizing around the whole worker and their whole life and everything that brings them to that point, that they're at work was historically what made.
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the u.s. labor movement strong. and we need to revive that.
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okay. and since i asked you about, what's been difficult about organizing, i'm also wondering, what's been successful about organizing?
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the amount of notice that they deserve. they have really been leading the way in developing new ways of organizing because the old ways don't work for us.
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you were just listening to angela vogel, organizer with the philadelphia drivers union and george gonzalez, a gig worker with instacart and uber. and that does it for this edition of.
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making contacts. and we want to hear from you, what do you think about gig work and coronavirus? join the conversation on facebook. our twitter handle is making_contact on an instagram.
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hello and welcome to the techdirt podcast. i'm.
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we are obviously still fairly deep in the middle of the covid-19 pandemic that is impacting all of our.
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lives. the uncertainty of it all is perhaps.
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well for me, at least the most annoying part. and i think that most people recognize that at some point we will certainly.
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get past all of this. and then there will be lots and lots of questions about what the world looks like,
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post pandemic. and right now about the only thing that people can say is that technology is going to play a major.
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role. we've already seen what a big and important role technology is playing in our lives to make it through the pandemic, whether.
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it's just the basic tools for online meetings, or just the fact that so many of us are now working from home, thanks to various technologies. and we're seeing some big shifts.
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telemedicine, which has been talked about for ages,
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but the pandemic suddenly shocked the system into making it widespread and making it a reality rather than just something that people predicted would happened one.
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day. so today on the podcast, we have.
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julie samuels, the executive director of tech nyc, who we've had on the podcast a few times in the past as well.
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and she is here to talk about the role that tech will play in any recovery.
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so let's start by noting that you are in new york city itself, which.
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was the first real sort of u.s. hotspot during the pandemic. so,
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surreal and difficult time. i mean, personally, i'm doing fine.
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you know, my family is healthy, my.
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partner and i were both able to transition to work from home. we both have jobs,
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we're doing great, but it's an unbelievable time to be alive.
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frankly, and we have young children and i think there are so many challenges that come with parenting right now, obviously.
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challenges emotional as well.
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how you explain this to your kids,
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Female
Train
how you understand or try and guess what the future's going to look like. we don't even.
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H
4
3.8
4
1,338
Female
Train
know what schooling is going to look like. so,yeah.you know,
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X
5
5
3
1,338
Female
Train
i'm fine. and i feel really lucky to be fine. so many people.
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H
4
3
4
1,338
Female
Train
it's tough. i also, i'd say.
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N
3
3
5
1,338
Female
Train
one other thing which we'll talk about, but the work i do here in new york.
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U
5.5
4.833333
6.333333
1,338
Female
Train
has been really gratifying. we've been able to really plug in and help the city and the state in very real and meaningful ways. and i.
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H
4
4
4
1,338
Female
Train
feel incredibly lucky to have that kind of `work that does feel meaningful.
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N
4
4
3
480
Male
Train
interesting, right? because in such a crazy time where we're sort of living in.
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N
3
3
4
480
Male
Train
in this constant crisis. it's sort of natural to want to do something to.
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