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PIR, the Public Interest Registry.
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was a non-profit organization. It wasn't owned by anybody and therefore it couldn't be sold by anybody. And so the notion of
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turning it into an asset from something that was fundamentally a public trust.
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But part of the problem, part of the reason why they won't do that is because they don't want to admit that, right? I mean, this is the problem with pretty much every...
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section 230 proposal which is that nobody wants to come out and say what they're really trying to do.
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or they don't understand what it is that they're really doing.
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or some combination of those things. But anyway.
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a good overview and I think we've spent
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as much time as necessary.
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on each of these proposals will sort of see where they go.
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And, you know, there's so many other attacks on T30 happening.
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the EARNIT Act, which I know is scheduled to be marked up.
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be other bills and the DOJ may do more of what it's going to do.
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and who knows if any of it is actually going to matter. But...
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unconstitutional proposal comes out of Congress or wherever it might come from.
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Thanks to both of you for taking the time and going through this exercise in torture.
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that I don't know quite what our schedule is for the podcast anymore since...
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Hello, and welcome to the TechDirt Podcast. I'm Mike Masnick.
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a whole bunch of legitimate questions to be asked about whether or not a pandemic should change how we view things like privacy, but also what will it mean going forward?
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If they remove content outside of C2A, then that does not get a mea-
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community in either part of the Section 230 statute.
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even if it's consistent with the platform's terms of service. And so...
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proposed in the first section of the report to C1, changes to C2A, and then finally tying things together with almost sort of a total ETH.
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I think they essentially want to rewrite the Section 230 statute and rather
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than just saying that up front and saying this is a totally new liability regime and we're going to write it down.
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just a different legal framework entirely. I would almost.
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rather have them do that, that be honest about it. If you'd think that...
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I don't want that because I can't believe that there's any...
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that will be better than what we've got, that won't have serious problems with free speech.
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free speech online, but this is just a mess and basically they're not
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what they're trying to do because if there's any value of the policy
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Well, on that happy note.
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section 230 cases, but as best I can understand...
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understand what the DOJ is proposing here. They really do want to.
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I think, you know, as Kathy's pointing out.
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out it's not the sort of very bare bones language of C1.
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action voluntarily taken in good faith and talks about obscene and lascivious
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is excessively violent content. And so there's a lot that you could potentially try to read into.
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that. But the DOJ is also one of the last things that they say in the report.
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they sort of take a moment to recognize the moderator's dilemma.
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So it was sort of the explanation of what happens if...
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If you apply traditional publisher liability, the way a newspaper or a book publisher would face, if you apply that to an online service.
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you create this dilemma where if services moderate content then they are going to be considered to be more like a traditional publisher because they are reviewing what's
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the users are posting there, maybe editing it, we're deciding what to leave up and what to take down, and that's the pathway towards more liability in the offline world.
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totally unsustainable for a service that's hosting content at.
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understand legally what they mean.
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create a distinction between if services are taking content down pursuant to C2A, they might retain their liability from
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at least civil lawsuits under 230 but it's
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It's like almost every case so far has even the moderation cases have really hinged on C1.
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one, which doesn't have that list and doesn't have the good faith part.
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overall, like whether or not that change would even matter.
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matter, you know, if everything hinges on C.
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one, which is the 26 words that basically...
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you know, say, put the liability on the...
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C1 and I think that introduces confusion and I think it's like tip the balance a little bit where we're making C1 do more work than I think it was actually intended to. Yes.
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But if they change C2, then all of a sudden that's going to try to take equal weight and be there and be a framing that's going to suck back all the energy.
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to C2 that C1 has currently been carrying. So I tried.
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because it's going to be the thing that's going to have the gravitational pull to pull a lot of the decisions back onto the other side. And still...
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undermine and make it more difficult to argue that the original policy balance that Congress was trying to strike would
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which we've advocated before, the most good stuff and the least bad stuff.
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Now, the sentence is a completely different policy balance, which is being implemented in a completely different...
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way and I think a lot of the advocacy will fall apart.
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I think part of it too goes to, because I totally
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I agree, Mike, that C2A currently is not the linchpin of most...
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restricting what C2A would cover because it does actually start to kind of...
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At least in theory, limit services from being able to do moderation that would take down
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but that the service didn't want to host. Currently,
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comment forums on, you know, on website.
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and newspapers, they have a lot of discretion about how they
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set what their policies are. They can take down speech that is in fact lawful and constitutionally protected.
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and make content-based restrictions on speech and say, we just don't want you to talk about that topic in this particular venue.
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if basically if the federal government could not write a law restricting the speech service providers
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elements of different content policies that we're familiar with today without kind of a legal basis.
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or at least it would really create a big cloud over the legality of having policies against things like nissan
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suppression or even just kind of off topic bands and any other kind of content moderation that the federal
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is a very, you know, oh, we want to constrain their discretion.
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but it doesn't really explain just what the consequences of that would be.
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Yeah, I mean, I think that it would be massive, but one one
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thing on that, which is the focus on C2.
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of people, right? So it's written from the perspective that understands that's got to be the way you frame discussions about online content.
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politically savvy efforts to
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to frame the debate as just being really what they're asking for is really just very reasonable things to ask for from these services.
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while also really radically changing the...
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I mean, it's, you know, so to that end.
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you know, hats off to them, they've made it.
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it look like, oh, we are very authoritative. And of course, we know what we're talking about. But if you.
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maybe as one concrete example to that.
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It's in my list of proposal changes. It's number 11.
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But it's toward the end of the report. And it's this idea of in, so in section 230 C2A, there is the...
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list of services are not liable for actions taken or strict action.
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or otherwise objectionable content. And the proposal that DOJ puts forward is to take a
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otherwise objectionable out of that statute to
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real in, they frame it as a concern about the unconstrained discretion that especially the biggest platforms have in crafting their terms of service and they want to
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So, I say that that's really significantly...
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bipartisan crap no matter what but I
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If you think given the polarization of our current sense of politics,
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It should really be alarming to people to watch how this ends up allocating power because all of these proposals
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speech or etc etc. If you're sitting here in the wake of this weekend's controversy about the politicization of the DOJ and now there's discussion
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about potentially impeaching Bill Barr. Like, how can any Democrat put...
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their name or any support behind a bill that's going to give somebody sitting in the seat that Bill Barr is currently sitting in with more power. Like, I think...