podcasts
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Collection for podcasts • 511 items • Updated • 2
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A | This podcast is sponsored by Ramp. Are you the decision maker in your company? Consider this for the first time in decades, there's a better option for a corporate card and spend management platform. Meet Ramp, the only corporate card and spend management system designed to help you spend less money so you can make mor... |
B | Hello and welcome back. Here's why you should watch today's real vision crypto daily briefing. All eyes are still on the Ethereum merge. Just yesterday, the Ethereum foundation gave us specific dates on when it's going to happen. We're going to get into why this matters and what it means for you. Plus, we're going to d... |
C | Thank you, Marco. Right now, ETH is trading around 1700. That's up a whopping approximately 3% in the last 24 hours. Kind of flattish. Looks like a bit of a late August volume slump, Marco. |
B | Well, yeah, speaking of ETH, our top story today is about ETH. The Ethereum merge has an official kickoff date. Yesterday, the Ethereum foundation announced additional details regarding this much discussed update to proof of stake. Ash, you and Nico broke down proof of stake yesterday and how it's considered more energ... |
C | Great question, Marko. So what this is really all about is fixing and finalizing the specific parameters for the merge. The reality is that these are mostly interested to folks on the tech side. Like, if I were to say activation is scheduled on beacon chain at epoch 14489 611 34 47 UTC, you'd be like, well, that's cool... |
B | All systems are go. I like that. That means we're finally here. It really does feel like the moments before a big launch that you see when you're on watching television. It's going to be truly a moment to watch. It's going to be exciting. Couple of weeks. Let's turn our attention to what else is making news today. Our ... |
C | So, Marco, let me break this one down and recap, because there's a lot here. It's a complicated story. Three arrows capital, often referred to in crypto land, is just three AC. Obviously a very well known crypto hedge fund founders Kyle Davis and Suzu, widely held in high esteem in the crypto space, at least prior to t... |
B | Yeah, you know, more information is always good news. It really helps us learn what went wrong, how we can prevent it in the future, what steps to kind of, you know, pay attention to if we encounter a similar situation. So I'm really looking forward to learning more about this in the coming months. Moving on to our fin... |
C | Well, you know, Marco, as you said, what makes the story interesting is that Circle agreed to preemptively freeze tornado cash wallet addresses from transacting using USDC, while Tether did not agree to do the same with us. DT Tether also says they're awaiting further instructions from law enforcement and they've not b... |
B | Well, wow, that's actually pretty huge. I didn't know that. USDT blacklisted 709 addresses and USDC only blacklisted 82 addresses. That's something definitely worth paying attention to. I'm going to check it out myself, and it definitely shows that when you look into the deeper into story, sometimes it doesn't match wh... |
D | Corby, it's great to have you back on real vision crypto. You were on in March. The last time you were here, we talked about security risks in the crypto space, especially cross chain vulnerability around bridges. Where are we today? Update us on your thesis and your view. |
E | Thanks for having me on, Ash. So the thesis remains the same, that cross chain bridges are generally not safe to use for the long term, but in general, they are vulnerable to hacks and exploits. So in the last year or so, we've seen 13 cross chain bridge hacks totaling up to around $2 billion of losses of value for peo... |
B | So, Ash, here we have Corby saying that cross chain bridges keep failing because they don't follow the typical routes of securing assets. He mentioned two in this clip. Can you break down what Corby is talking about here? Can you give us the big picture? |
C | Yeah. So, basically, what Corby is saying here is there are two separate ways to secure computer systems. The first is to centralize access and to apply traditional centralized asset controls. This is the way, for example, your bank account is secured. Your brokerage account is secured, traditional centralized data sec... |
B | Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, one of the questions that I feel is on the top of everyone's mind when you watch that kind of clip is, how do we even get to this point? And in this next clip, we have Corby talking about why we see so many cross chain bridges operational despite these vulnerabilities. Let's take a list... |
C | Kirby, when you were here in March. |
D | You said words that unfortunately proved prophetic. You said, unfortunately, we're going to have to feel the pain before we solve the problem. And just about, I guess, a week or two ago, we saw this hack on Nomad, another cross chain bridge where about $200 million was lost. What's your sense of how long this goes on f... |
E | We probably have a long way to go. Maybe we're halfway there. More bridges are ready to fail. Nomads not going to be the last bridge to fail. And I think that VC's traders, everyone in crypto, has kind of gotten the message at this point in time that there's something wrong with cross chain. It continues to be the bigg... |
B | So, Ash, this build fast mentality Corby mentions here is not something new. We've been in an era of move fast and break things ever since Mark Zuckerberg coined the term. But you would think with hundreds of millions of dollars or billions of dollars at stake on these bridges, there'd be more due diligence. Can you ex... |
C | Well, Marco, that's exactly right. You know, move fast and break things, I would say works fine as a methodology. For example, during the early years of Facebook, if you had to wait 20 minutes to post a picture on Facebook of, like, a juicy steak on your Saturday night out, I mean, so what? Nobody cares. Facebook was p... |
B | Well, you know, on that point, speaking of ideology, Corby also mentions this idea of first principles. Can you help me understand what does that even mean? |
C | Yeah. First principles is a term, I believe, originally adapted from aristotelian logic. It's something that scientists talk about a lot of. Corby, of course, his background is in math, physics and computer science. He studied quantum computing at University of Pennsylvania. So basically, what he's saying here is, you ... |
B | Yeah, so kind of like the academic one he kind of mentioned earlier in the clip. Okay, very interesting. Well, so, so far, Corby's made it really clear that cross chain bridges are a problem and they need to be fixed. |
E | Right. |
B | And so here in this next clip, Corby talks about one way he thinks we can fix them. It's not a way that too many people would like to hear. Let's see what he has to say about it. |
E | The quickest and easiest way to do it is outsource cross chain functionality to a centralized company like Coinbase or Kraken or Gemini, whatever, any of these centralized companies that can just manage transactions for you, the trade off is that you're going to have to trust them. You're going to have to go through KY... |
D | Yeah, Corby, it's really interesting, and one of the reasons we're so excited to have you back is because this is an area that people who are in the space, as you know, the developers who are sort of eyebrow deep in this all day long, clearly understand these issues. But I feel like a lot of people who are just investo... |
E | Absolutely. I can speak for other crypto VC's and other people who have been crypto operators that the running joke after every single one of these bridges collapses is like, oh, maybe we should just go back to centralized. It's not that bad. |
D | That's a pretty cynical statement. |
C | Yeah. |
E | It'S cynical, but maybe for the time being, before we can prove that cross chain bridge, there is a safe way to do decentralized, trustless cross chain bridging. The centralized way is working. And the only reason why I think we die hard, crypto people who live and breathe, the core ethos of what crypto stands for, whi... |
D | Preston, as a quick refresher, Corby, for people who may not know, tell us what the centralized model is and why it works so well and also with the trade offs there. |
E | Absolutely. So the centralized model is using software built for marketplaces and financial exchanges that basically manage the transactions across different chains for you all in an interface. So they basically do all the transactions behind the scene. And so if you wanted to buy something on a chain or if you wanted ... |
D | So what we're talking about here is Coinbase, kraken, Gemini, some of the big exchanges that people know. |
E | Well, exactly. |
B | So, Ash, here we have Corby saying the word centralization. This is like a dirty word here in the crypto verse. And he's arguing that centralization could be a solution for these vulnerabilities. These cross chain vulnerabilities. Help me understand why is he making this case. |
C | Yeah, spot on, Marco. It's interesting because he's talking about recent realizing cross chain asset transfers. He's saying, in essence, hey, you want to swap eth for Sol, ethereum for Solana? Maybe you're better off doing it on Coinbase or Kraken or FTX. Now, I know that's not going to be a satisfying answer to everyo... |
B | Marco, very interesting. You know, and as we talk about interim steps, that brings us to our last clip of the day. Here we have Corby talking about not an interim step, but the next step for the ethereum merge, which is on everybody's mind. It was our top story this morning. Let's hear how he feels about it. |
C | Corby, another topic that is top of. |
D | Mind for many people in the crypto space right now, obviously, is the ethereum merge. It's interesting. We know that there are some of the smartest people in the crypto space who are working on this. An enormous amount of effort and iq points has been thrown into this transition from proof of work to proof of stake. Th... |
E | Absolutely. I have no doubt and complete faith in the team that's doing the merge, that they are really the highest quality engineers and super high iq, no matter how I like how high IQ or how great the team is that's going to be executing the merge. It makes me nervous. And because it's a really difficult operation to... |
C | Yeah. |
D | One of the metaphors we often hear about this is that it's like changing out the engines on a jet airplane at 50,000ft. |
E | Exactly. That was actually a very similar analogy that I was going to use. Exactly that. It's changing out the engines of a rocket ship while it's going in, you know, while it's traveling into orbit. |
D | I mean, it sort of suggests almost that metaphor. Implicit in that is it doesn't really matter how smart the team is, how many IQ points they're throwing at it, but there are risks that things could go wrong. |
E | There's a lot of things that can go wrong, and unfortunately, it comes from the internal team, which knows exactly where the network might be vulnerable. Not saying that there will be an inside job, but these are all different risks. People who are professional hackers are going to be looking at this transition and try... |
B | Ash, I really like this analogy that you and Corby use of changing out the engines on a jet plane at 50,000ft. But what makes people so concerned about Ethereum and changing out this engine is that Ethereum is a working plane. It's a battle tested blockchain, a battle tested network. Yes, we have issues with cost and s... |
C | Yeah, sure. And it's also about $200 billion in terms of the market capitalization of the existing chain. Corby shares my views about potential risk. I've come to my conclusion in a little bit different way, more from an intuitive understanding of the nature of complexity informed by events like the 2008 financial cris... |
B | Exactly. Because it's reckable. You know, Ash, thank you so much for breaking it down in a non technical way. Here's what I learned today and what I think the viewers can take away from this conversation. Right. So there's two main ways to secure systems centralization and consensus. But cross chain bridges don't do ei... |
C | You know, Hadi, that's a great question. It's the $200 billion question. You know, for me at this point, this is almost the difference between risk and nidian uncertainty. You really don't know what the potential risks are until they happen. It probably starts to trade like something of a binary proposition, meaning if... |
B | Yeah, absolutely. Great question. And the thing about sell the news events too, is that, you know, that, that it's only a short term type of timeframe, that things are for a longer term timeframe. And even just yesterday on the clip that I believe that you were, that Ben Whitby spoke with Jim McDonald, they were, they ... |
C | I love it folks at real vision, watching the show, you know, look, I probably should have said this for Hadi's question. It applies there too. Obviously not financial advice. I think that the interpretation, at least that I have, how I think about it, is it's going to be a catalyst in one direction or the other. We jus... |
B | Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you, Maximus, for the question. That's it for today's show, everybody. Thank you for watching. Don't forget to comment. Smash that, like, button. Tweet at us. Remember, this is your show. We want to hear from you. What's working, what's not, what guests do you want to see? What theme shoul... |
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