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A | Where's he at? |
B | Oh, fuck. He just said he can't attend the call. No explanation. He was just in the waiting room, right? |
A | Yeah. Did something come up? I mean, just try to. Try to have him reschedule, maybe. Oh, my contact is in the lobby right now. |
C | Let him in. |
B | Don't even wait. |
A | Just let him in. |
C | Let him in. |
B | Just. Yeah, just let him in. |
C | Let him in. |
A | We're rolling right now. |
C | All right. |
B | Let him in. |
C | Hey, everyone. |
A | Surprise, surprise. |
B | Yo. |
C | Severe apologies. Extremely bad timing on my side. Dude. It's okay down to the second, but I'm here now. |
B | Okay. No, we're just really glad we have you. We just got off, actually. James and a lot were just in here. We were talking about rescheduling, so I'm down to just run it right now if you are. |
C | Let's go. We are going to have the best. |
D | Cold open of any podcast that's ever been done. If you could listen to what we've been spewing for the last 1010 minutes with James and Allah trying to figure this out, bro. It's going to be like the beginning of an Eminem song. |
C | No. |
A | Excited to have you here. The first thing I wanted to talk about is just the fantastically loud, bitten sour fan base or the Tao community on Twitter. So I was doing some prep work for this pod, reading the about section in the white paper and stuff. Put out my first ever tweet with the Tao kind of hashtag or tagging b... |
C | Well, we certainly didn't do it, you know, purposefully. That just arose very organically. We just focused on building what we wanted to build and, you know, didn't do a pre mine and released the thing and spoke about what we were really into. And people showed up, like, we led with why I think. And people were like, y... |
A | Yeah, no, that's awesome. Well, I'm sure I'll be running and hiding from my mentions in the bull market when there's even more, like, retail interest and you guys have grown significantly. |
C | It's a little bit like, I feel like we've cultivated almost like a bitcoin maximalist sort of toxicity, maybe. I mean, I hate to say that, but I mean. No, no, no. By that, I mean, like, it's a very strong cultural team. There's strong memes and very, very, very activated people that believe in what we're doing. And I'm... |
A | Yeah, no, 100%. Mahesh's partner Sal said, you guys have the Youngboy NBA fans of crypto as, like, a crypto community. |
C | I don't know what that means. |
A | That basically it's like a. That's a rapper and he has, like, a rabid fan base. Like, these people will do. Do, kind of do anything for him. Aggressive, loud, like making noise. And I think that's exactly what you want from a crypto community, especially in a bear market. Win. |
C | And why do you think that is? Why do you think that is? |
A | I mean, I think the fact that you mentioned the pre mine, I think that that probably had a lot to do with it. I think a lot of, like, community members are probably disillusioned at this point in the cycle with, like, very early stage, you know, vc allocations of tokens and getting dumped on and having all these scams ... |
C | That has a big part of it. But I think it's a little bit like, because there's a rabbit hole here about what this technology is and how it works in the similar way that there is a rabbit hole with bitcoin. It's like, first you learn about bitcoin and you're like, oh, that's cool. It's a new currency. Or you think, gosh... |
A | No, I mean, 100%. Another thing I was curious about is your screen name. So here we've got you as const on Twitter, your const underscore reborn. You know, what's the meaning behind that? What does it mean to you? |
C | Oh, it's not that interesting. I was, when I left Google, I came up with a pseudonym of Constantine Damore because I really liked James Damore, if you remember the guy that wrote the Google manifesto when he got fired. Do you remember this? There was a whole thing, and I picked up this pseudonym that was Constantine Da... |
B | Is Jake touching on something you just briefly mentioned in passing right now, but you've been talking about how the YC business model is dead, or at least inferior to the open ownership model that crypto enables. Can you expand on that? Because I feel like a lot of people would find that interesting right now. |
C | Yeah. On the face of it, it seems blatantly obvious that you want to build technologies that everyone loves, and that's sort of the YC model, right? Build something that people love. Duh. The problem is that implicit in that design is this separation between the people building and the people receiving the technology. ... |
B | Yeah. No, you answered it perfectly. And I think that's a good point to transition to the regulation topic because like you said, many people are realizing just how powerful AI is, especially after chatgpt launched and discussions have picked up really about whether or not, or I guess, to what extent AI should be regul... |
C | Yeah, I don't think it's an inauthentic fear. I do think that there's a lot of unknowns that we're dealing with here. It doesn't mean that we should decelerate. Right. I'm not saying we should stop. And I also don't think that we should give the problem to regulators because I don't think that they really know what the... |
B | So, yeah, the way you just described bit tensor is it's an alternative to the prevailing top down approach of regulation and AI development. Is that correct? Where you know the community? |
C | Yes, it's definitely. It's bottom up regulation. |
B | Okay. And I think this is. |
C | It's bottom up regulation. |
B | I think this would be a great point to just have you kind of clearly describe what Bittensor is for somebody listening that may not know. So what's its vision? What are the objectives? |
C | Right. Well, the original vision, I mean, it's still the vision today. But where we started with was, let's take the power of bitcoin style mining, which has created the largest supercomputer in the world, this new type of computation, which is incentive based. Bitcoin miners just do the work because that's what is mos... |
B | I think one of the advantages as well is that you don't have a centralized organization that can come in and intentionally restrict the capabilities or influence of these AI models. We're actually starting to see that a little bit with OpenAI. We're starting to see some of these AI labs come out and self regulate, intr... |
C | Yeah, there's a lot of angles that make us very valuable. There's the AI gets closed source and you can't access it. Then an open source one is obviously very valuable. There's a situation where it's regulated out of existence. And then the fact that we're decentralized is really important. There is a situation where t... |
B | Before we continue to dive deeper into bittensor, I want to zoom back out a little bit and just get your thoughts on what we're seeing in the open source AI space right now. So it's pretty clear that there are some major changes that have happened over the past decade. So traditionally, a lot of the AI research was don... |
C | I don't. I think it's commendable what he's doing, but I do think that it's effectively a marketing ploy from Facebook. And we're at the, it's like the last ditch effort of open source AI, and everyone wants it to be true, right? Everyone wants to believe that the open source AI will compete with the centralized altern... |
B | Beautifully said. And I think at this point, many listeners are just itching to hear a little bit more about Bittensor itself. So I think this is a good point to kind of transition the conversation of that. Let's talk about Bittensor revolution. So this was a recent network upgrade that really reshaped the network stru... |
C | Yeah. We invented a language of mining digital commodities that was really, really, really powerful. And we discovered that, hey, we invented this great thing, but we're not the best people in the world. We should let other people write with this language to create digital commodity systems, and we should connect them ... |
B | Yeah, and you hinted at this a little bit but essentially somebody could build a storage subnet or a data procurement subnet. Could you just briefly. |
C | And has. |
B | And they have. Okay, wow. Well, on that point, could you talk about what subnets currently exist and maybe some that you're excited about? |
C | This is a bit of a weird one because most people won't understand the value of it, but we have a Mapreduce subnet coming out onto Bittensor, and that doesn't sound very sexy. But what it does is it solves this very important problem for working with distributed decentralized training and the Mapreduce subnet. What it d... |
A | No, that's fantastic. I think we've covered so much already. AI regulation bitten sour. I think we've got one or two more questions for you. Just I think the first one is around deepen. So this emerging vertical within crypto decentralized physical infrastructure networks was kind of kicked off in 2019 by helium. I thi... |
C | Yeah, the GPU rich as they say? No, I think that the GPU market is pretty saturated and people have asked me like, well, what type of efficiency are you going to possibly get in that market if it's already super efficient? It's like they come right off the, out of the factory and go straight to OpenAI or Tesla's superc... |
D | If. |
C | The problem is more abstract, then people can find out all sorts of different ways of solving it that don't just require GPU power. Maybe you can actually do these inferences on CPU's. So if we made a market for GPU's, that's not actually the right thing. We wanted to write make a market for intelligence per second. An... |
D | Well, Jake, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on here. It's obviously very clear that you're a differentiated thinker with super creative ideas. Maybe just the last thing to end this on. You know, we're living in unprecedented times. There's news about aliens, the world falling apart, things every single day. M... |
C | I think we're. I think that we're actually at the beginning of a golden age and we're about to enter a complete. Like, we're coming out of the Dark Ages rather than entering them. I think we're entering a new moral universe, a new moral world, one where it's not so unipolar. And I think that's good. I think we're going... |
D | That's awesome, man. Well, look, I think we are perennial optimists over here, and by the same token, super excited about everything you're doing. |
C | Do you want to maybe just tell. |
D | Our audience where they can find you on Twitter, on socials, if they're trying. |
C | To learn more about the project? Yeah, please follow me on Twitter. I'm cons four born. And then join our discord community, become our board of directors. That's the power of cryptocurrencies and open ownership systems. You can just be my boss. So if you want to be my boss, I'm looking for a boss. |
B | That's awesome. |
D | Well, thanks so much for being on, and it's been another awesome episode here, so. |
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