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Collection for podcasts • 511 items • Updated • 2
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Speaker A: That's the vision scale Ethereum together. And it may be that we're creating all of these kind of mini chains, or base and op mainnet and XOR network and pgn, even, you know, arbitrum one and scroll and all these things. But the thing that we're all contributing to is scaling Ethereum and bringing billions o... |
Speaker B: Bienvenue at bankless nation. Today at ECC, I talked to Jesse Pollock of base. It's interesting to everyone seems to associate Jesse Pollock with base. He's actually at Coinbase building base. And that actually is a difference. One of the nuances that we unpack in this show about base, of course, is that bas... |
Speaker A: Thanks, David. Glad to be here. Hey, bankless nation. Glad to be here talking to all y'all. |
Speaker B: So if you look at the reception of base on Twitter, it's insanely positive. How is it in real life? |
Speaker A: It's been awesome. I mean, we've been so excited about the number of builders who want to be coming and building with us. And so, you know, I think when we were kind of in the pre test net phase, we had a little bit of trepidation of like, how are people gonna receive this? What's the response gonna be? And ... |
Speaker B: I think that the story of base is hopefully a microcosm of the story of layer twos at large as well. There is a growing boiling sentiment among the Ethereum clan that we're on the cusp of a layer two summer, and perhaps base is actually the spearhead of that. Maybe we could just take a moment. I know we've h... |
Speaker A: Yeah, well, I mean, I think first off, we do think that the pie is massive. Right? And so what we're really focused on is collaborating with everyone to grow that pie, um, and make it so we go from the less than 10 million people we have on chain today to 8 billion people over the next few years. And so, um,... |
Speaker B: And this is, of course, bullish for Coinbase because if people want to be like, hey, what's that defi thing? Coinbase has the answer for that. |
Speaker A: Exactly. And not just defi things. I think we're really excited about Defi, but we're also excited about all of the kind of emerging consumer use cases that are happening on chain. I mean, increasingly we're seeing gaming on chain, we're seeing food on chain, we're seeing music on chain, we're seeing art on ... |
Speaker B: Can we talk about what's it like for a. Probably the largest centralized company that we have in crypto to build a decentralized network? So, like, how, how is that interface? Because is base Coinbase, or is Coinbase and base a partnership between two separate entities? Can you, like, parse part that a littl... |
Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And I had a main stage talk today at ECC. Um, the goal with base is to build a decentralized, open network. And the reason why we think, um, decentralization is so important is because decentralization is fundamentally what enables an open global on chain economy. And an open global on chai... |
Speaker B: Increased opportunity, too. |
Speaker A: Increased opportunity, too. Absolutely. I think we're paving the way. I think what you've seen over the last four or five months since we started talking about base is that a lot of other people are following in our footsteps. You have more and more op stack chains coming out. You have more and more folks wh... |
Speaker B: I think a big theme of your answer just now is twofold. It's really about trailblazing in two different ways. One is Coinbase is directly interfacing with a lot of the infrastructure and pouring in resources to make the infrastructure to support base better. And the beautiful thing about that is that it's re... |
Speaker A: Yeah, I'm just getting a little emotional, as you say, that, you know, at the end of 2021, I kind of stepped into a new role, and the goal was figure out how to bring Coinbase on chain. It's like a 4000 person public company. There's not a roadmap for that. There's no, like, here's what you do to bring the c... |
Speaker B: I think a reason why so many people find themselves in the crypto industry after they get in here, they kind of understand that the old institutions are crumbling. They're not really serving, sometimes to the best of their ability, they're not really serving the needs of the people of the world. The institut... |
Speaker A: Totally. And there's no, like, to be clear, there's no telegram group where there's like a cabal of us, like coordinating, right? It's around open source code, right? Like, we started building base without talking to the op labs team or optimism, because we looked at the code and we said, this is open source... |
Speaker B: Part of the collaboration between Coinbase and the op stack decentralized network of the collective. The collective is the right word. Was the decision to contribute some of the sequencer fees of base to public goods. Can you just talk a little bit about that decision and why that's such an important part of... |
Speaker A: Yeah, obvious to us kind of from the beginning. It's like if you look at the ethos of impact equals profit, and you look at the models that we've started to build where we have new funding mechanisms for public goods, the idea that Coinbase would benefit from those technologies, or base would benefit from th... |
Speaker B: Yeah, I think that really fits in with this whole layer two summer that we're all anticipating. We all feel like we're on the cusp of slowly but surely, we did retroactive public goods funding too. I told a team, hey, if you got a retroactive public goods, tweet at me and I'll retweet it. So I was just retwe... |
Speaker A: Yeah. |
Speaker B: And it was, it felt like I was reminded of Andreas Antonopoulos meme of the festival of the Commons, when more people use the same systems is actually improves. |
Speaker A: Yeah. |
Speaker B: This is the nature of open source. But now when you inject economics into these, the festival of the Commons, all of a sudden you have retroactive public goods funding and then you have that like raining little rewards on all these projects that are asking for funding to build. To build the collective. |
Speaker A: Yep. |
Speaker B: And when I saw retroactive public goods one and two, I was like, man, that is actually kind of a drain on the op token, because these layer twos, they're so young, it's still like coming basically out of VC funding to start this whole thing. But then if you, if you tell me that the base op stack chain is con... |
Speaker A: Yeah, I'm optimistic. It's building, it's all coming together and I think it's happening this summer. Layer two summer on chain summer. It's summer and the builders are feeling the energy. The moment is now. I think we've been waiting a long time for the infrastructure to be ready, but it's ready and the app... |
Speaker B: Yeah, knock on wood, but there is wood right here. So I'm going to do it. But seemingly that we're out of the. Hopefully we've bottomed on the whole regulatory onslaught towards crypto, things seem to be tilting in our favor. And one of the things I've been talking with Ben Jones and Kevin a walkie about for... |
Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I think if you look at the messaging coming from Coinbase and the work that Coinbase has been doing, particularly on the policy and branding side, I think the story we've been telling is that it's time to upgrade the system. We have been leveraging these systems for our economy for the last... |
Speaker B: Slow, slow. |
Speaker A: It's slow. |
Speaker B: And in that slowness gave us lack of assurances, like, are they going to do it? Is it going to be right? |
Speaker A: Absolutely. And there's going to be a lot more choppiness ahead, surely, and a lot more learning and a lot more growing and working and helping policymakers and regulators understand why these systems are important. But I'm optimistic. I'm really optimistic. I think that in the United States and globally, we... |
Speaker B: Me, let's talk a little bit about the details. Is there a main net date out there or is that public? |
Speaker A: So we opened up mainnet for builders. |
Speaker B: Last Thursday, builder mainnet. |
Speaker A: So if you are a builder and you're deploying smart contracts, you can go, you can bridge EtH, you can send ETH to portal base ETH and it will bridge it over to base, or. |
Speaker B: You can real eth. Real eth on real base. |
Speaker A: On real base, you can go to docs dot base.org dot that will give you all the guides. There's node providers, there's data providers, there's developer tools. Everything you need to build is open right now. And the reason why we've opened up for builders first is we want to make sure that we can just focus on... |
Speaker B: Rides before you open the park. |
Speaker A: You got to build the rides before you open the park. And with Coinbase, we have a lot of folks who want to come on the amusement rides. And so we want to make sure that there's some good rides there. And so that's what we're focused on right now. I've been here in Paris just talking to builders, helping them... |
Speaker B: Full main net. |
Speaker A: Full main net. |
Speaker B: User Mainnet. |
Speaker A: User mainnet. Everyone open access rides are open early August. We got a lot of other stuff coming after early August. That's going to be exciting. One thing to note just for all the builders out there is we're running this campaign where if you deploy your dapp, you verify your contracts, you can earn the G... |
Speaker B: One of the things I'm optimistic about, and maybe you can provide more clarity on this, is that we always need new developers in this space. We are not yet saturated with developers. Base opens up its doors towards the developers, but right now it's the developers we already have. What I'm hopeful for is tha... |
Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. And if you look at the data today, I think there's something like 30 to 40,000 on chain developers and there's 30 million developers in the world. So that is three orders of magnitude, four orders of magnitude. We've been doing a lot to try and create on ramps for people who are traditional web t... |
Speaker B: One of the recent releases out of Coinbase was that Coinbase wallet soft, like wallet as a service system where you could just like, as an API for wallets is like the best way to describe it. Maybe that is what it is. |
Speaker A: That is exactly what it is. |
Speaker B: Nice. Dev points. Dev points, let's go. How does that integrate with base and how does that just fulfill the vision that we want? |
Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So base is supported network in there so you can get started integrating was into was like wallet as a service. You can get started integrating that into your app. It's really built for folks who are looking for an out of the box API for wallets that can kind of reduce the complexity for us... |
Speaker B: Jesse, you hinted that there are some things coming after Mainnet that you just said exist. Is there any more I can get out of you about that? |
Speaker A: Nothing more. Today we'll be talking about it more. I think it's. We're filling summary. It's on chain, Summer. There's so much energy, there's so much cool stuff being built on chain. And I think the thing that we are excited about is helping new people discover that helping folks see that on chain is not j... |
Speaker B: I think astute listeners will notice the way that you're using that word on chain. You're not talking about we're going on chain or that is going to be on chain. It's just like, it's on chain. We're on chain. We're going on chain. Can you talk about the importance of that phrase and why using it in that very... |
Speaker A: Yeah, and I think the thing that I kind of think about with on chain is online, which was, you know, in the late nineties, not something that anyone did, right. Like it was on dash line and you were like, are you online? Like, e mail hit me on my, like, I phone. Right. Like that was even later. But I think t... |
Speaker B: It turned into online shopping. It turned into online stuff. And now we're just called shopping. |
Speaker A: Now we just call it shopping. Right? Yeah, it's true. And I think what we've seen over the last many years in crypto is I feel like we've kind of been, like, looking for the way to talk about crypto right. We started with bitcoin because that was all there was. And then it was crypto, and then it was like bl... |
Speaker B: For a moment and then we ruined it. |
Speaker A: And I think on chain is like, it's the first thing that I say to people and they intuitively understand it. And the second I say on chain, like, online, they're like, oh, oh. It's like new, but also familiar. And I think we just gotta will it into existence. |
Speaker B: I think that's right. |
Speaker A: Right. We just gotta will it into existence. We gotta will into existence. That on chain is this platform that powers incredible experiences for all of us all the time and is gonna be a fundamental part of the world. And, like online, it will go from ondash chain, which is where it was, to on chain now, whic... |
Speaker B: Yep. Jesse. Shop. Jesse. This has been fantastic. It makes me very optimistic about the future of what we've got and being optimistic in a bear market, I think it's just the best place to be. So thank you for guiding us through this conversation and getting base to mainnet soon. |
Speaker A: Tm, I appreciate that. I like to say we were in a crypto winter and then we had builder spring, and now it's on chain summer. So I'm feeling optimistic. It's time to build. Thank you for having me. |
Speaker B: Bankless nation. You know the deal. Crypto is risky. Layer twos are risky. Probably new layer twos, you know, there's something there. But we are headed west no matter what. We're also headed on chain, so we will see you there. This is the frontier. It's not for everyone. But we are glad you are with us on t... |
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