podcasts
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Collection for podcasts • 511 items • Updated • 2
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A | Hey, guys, this is debrief after our episode with Michael and Vance on Crypto games. Crypto gaming. This is the first time we've had Michael on. We've had Vance on a number of times. These are both gps that stand for general partner in framework the fund. David, I think, said this in the intro. They got their start in ... |
B | Wow. |
A | That's a big one. |
B | That had to be 2021, early 2022. |
A | Yeah. A lot easier to raise in early 2022. |
B | Good time to raise early 2022. |
A | Especially the first three months or so. After that, not so much. So good timing on their part. And the big question is, are they timing this correctly? David, do you think, are crypto games going to happen this time? |
B | Well, I never thought that they wouldn't happen. I think in the axie market, we all just like, what do we do? We pull forward the future and be like, crypto gaming is going to revolutionize everything right now. Like, right now, it's going to revolutionize. No, it's never happened. |
A | We were wrong about the end part, the right now part. We were right about the first part. They're going to revolutionize everything. |
B | I don't even know if we set a time last time like, it felt. |
A | Like it was imminent when you saw the price of. |
B | When your reality is distorted from the bull market and time is moving very, very quickly, but it's actually not. Yeah. Like, yeah, your time dilation is definitely a thing. Yeah. Like this thesis, the idea that vanstone, it's actually not this kind of the same old thesis. It's just now we have a little bit of, like, t... |
A | My take is this is actually pretty easy for a crypto investor here, or it's like an investor who's looking for opportunities. Front run opportunity is like, you get to go do a fun thing. Go like, play some games. Go play alluvium. Yeah. |
B | You know what we had to do to get into crypto? When I was coming into crypto, I. |
A | Know what I had to do. I had to go on this janky user interface. |
B | Download myst. |
A | Yeah. Make your dao and open a thing called a CDP. And I thought that was fun, kids. You guys get to play. You guys play games. But like, I mean, I mean, there's an element of, like, if you play it and if you think it's fun and if you start, like, getting into the economy and you like the mechanics, you're a user. I me... |
B | I think it goes back down to the crux of the question, which is, like, how far in scope can crypto games really take? Vance said this line in the episode where, like, oh, yeah. If gamers think that their game is fun, then they can own the native token of, like, the game. I'm like, oh, okay, well, security's concerns ve... |
A | I don't think you want that, do you? But, like, also, are the games going to be the central bank? Like, who, who controls the monetary policy in your economy that you created? |
B | Yeah, but also, I wouldn't invoke the negative side of bank. That's the cool thing is every single game is its own bank. They don't have to actually be beholden to the dollar. They get to make their own in game currency. And so the whole maximum bull case for crypto gaming and gaming really at large, is actually the li... |
A | I I actually, I kind of like the take that they're the, the practical approach they have to invest in crypto gaming. It's not pie in the sky. It's like, do you remember part of the narrative last cycle when we were talking about these things was like, I get to take my flaming sword from like one world to another. My as... |
B | And they were like, that thesis has never played out well. |
A | And they were like, just forget about that. That was always stupid. That was never going to work. And don't worry about that. What's the thesis? There's 3 billion gamers. If you can sell the assets, like the assets that you generate and work for in a game versus, and you compare that to a game where you can't do that, ... |
B | To that begs the question, okay, you can't just have people sell their assets because you also need someone to buy the assets. Those things have to balance each other out. And I guess their response would be like, okay, well, the east loves to buy assets. So rather than the game studios pocketing 100% of the assets tha... |
A | Yeah, I mean, the end kind of base level utilities. Like, it has to be fun, right? That's where you kind of collapse too, is like, would you play this game? I guess without the upside maybe, but I think that this is where the central bank conversation kind of comes into play because crypto games are going to have to re... |
B | Yeah. What happens when we combine the particles of just the intensity of gamers with the degeneracy of crypto. Like, as we're speaking, like, over $500 million got deposit into the blast layer two, which actually isn't a layer two. It's actually just a multisig three of five. That's just a yield farm. Like, what happe... |
A | Yeah, I don't know what happens. And also, Kevin. Kevin was the just some NFT. |
B | What was that? |
A | Yeah, something. Crypto, monsieur. |
B | Yeah, something. |
A | Yeah. There's another element of, like, you want to keep kind of the regular. It's just a game. You don't want the regulators to get, but, like, it's. |
B | But then you're just gonna invite the barbarians right through the door. |
A | Well, it's. It's just a game until, like, you know, you start to have hundreds of thousands of dollars in value right inside of this economy, and then it's more than a game, then it's a lawsuit, you know, like, if things go wrong and then, like, it becomes like a claim against, and I've lost something of substantial va... |
B | Right. The whole idea is, oh, crypto gaming is dead and now it's back. And also IMX, what the hell's been going on with that? They've been onboarding like 500 games for the last like three years. What the hell's going on with that? I think just our expectation of timelines in crypto is colliding with just like this mor... |
A | Yeah. |
B | For the first time ever. And we're like, oh, you guys are so slow out there. We've done like four cycles since you finished. Like, by the time you started your game, like, yeah, like, shit moves fast in crypto. But crypto also has to integrate with the rest of the world. And the rest of the world is slow. Yeah, sorry a... |
A | I wonder how good alluvium actually is. Let's find out. Are you gonna play it? |
B | Sure, why not? Why the hell not? |
A | So let me know how that is. That's interesting. |
B | You should try streaming. |
A | I mean, I'd be curious because part of it, games are such an art form as well. It's just like, I think sometimes it's hard for investors to come in and take real artists and real creative thinkers to design an incredible gaming experience. It's not just going to be solved with, with kind of money. Right. And so I wonde... |
B | Been told that it is, been told. |
A | That it is basically right. And I think people are excited about it because the first, and that's great. It just still might not be the one, you know? |
B | Right, right. Okay. So I will say if crypto game, if a crypto game does have a success, and that success has actually determined success from the outside of crypto, not the inside. So, like, it's, it's non crypto people who are looking at a crypto game, like, oh, look, the crypto people gotta, they got something. They ... |
A | David, do you want to see a price chart? Funding price chart. Look at alluvium right now. This is market cap. |
B | Oh, my God. |
A | Isn't this a crazy price chart? |
B | We are looking at a chart that is about 50% back up to its previous all time high. |
A | Is this Max? |
B | Previous all time high? Yeah, that's maxed. Yeah. And its previous all time high, it, like, touched it for a second. Wow. Oh, my God. Wow. |
A | So, okay, so alluvium all time high was November 2021, $1.1 billion. It did not stay there for very long. |
B | Briefly. |
A | Briefly. And then sunk all the way back down to a market cap of, like, 58 million. |
B | And it's back up to a 750 million. Oh, my God. |
A | This is my point. Like, I don't think it's gonna be. Oh, we. We found a game that's just, like, nice and gradual and sloping upwards. No, this is crypto. It's gonna be like, you know, one to 100 to back to, like, five to, like, back to, you know, a thousand real. |
B | Okay, wait, go. Go to the very bottom right before I just poked out just recently, like. Like, a couple weeks ago. Okay, like, a couple weeks ago, it was $233 million, and now is at six over 600. |
A | Yeah, so it traditional bank three x. |
B | In, like, a month. |
A | Yeah. So now we're talking. |
B | We're fucking back. |
A | I mean, but go play it. I don't know. And, like, look, it's. It's a, you know, very spectacular. |
B | The game comes out, and it just, like, sucks. People just, like, dump. |
A | Well, not. Neither David or myself have any alluvium tokens, so this is true. But I kind of wish I did, and I kind of wish I was looking at that in October 2022. All right. Anything else I should have listened to? |
B | Your own podcast. |
A | Yeah, sure. Why did you say that this was a big deal? It's. Alluvium is Kane Warwick's brother, right? |
B | Yeah. Kieran Warwick. Yeah. |
A | May, should we bring him on the podcast? |
B | Well, now that his token is punched. |
A | As is tradition, I guess you go play it and then let me know what you think. |
B | All right, cool. |
A | All right, thanks, guys. |
B | Meanwhile, I got another podcast. |
A | This has been the debrief. See you. |
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