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32186fa | 1 | [{"text": "The following\ncontent is provided", "start": 0.57, "duration": 1.8}, {"text": "by MIT OpenCourseWare under\na Creative Commons license.", "start": 2.37, "duration": 3.96}, {"text": "Additional information\nabout our license", "start": 6.33, "duration": 2.1}, {"text": "and MIT OpenCourseWare\nin general", "start": 8.43, "duration": 2.37}, {"text": "is available at ocw.mit.edu.", "start": 10.8, "duration": 1.93}, {"text": "JON GRUDEN: Dr.\nJoel Moses, who is", "start": 15.63, "duration": 3.87}, {"text": "going to give us a talk\nthat will clarify and get us", "start": 19.5, "duration": 9.38}, {"text": "to think deeply about\nthe nature of engineering", "start": 28.88, "duration": 3.13}, {"text": "as a learning discipline.", "start": 32.01, "duration": 2.2}, {"text": "I think he'll talk\nless about engineering", "start": 34.21, "duration": 2.82}, {"text": "as a professional society,\nwhich is what a lot of people", "start": 37.03, "duration": 5.04}, {"text": "talk about when they talk\nengineering or as a profession.", "start": 42.07, "duration": 5.36}, {"text": "And I think he's going\nto talk less about it", "start": 47.43, "duration": 2.64}, {"text": "as a practice of work.", "start": 50.07, "duration": 6.265}, {"text": "In other words,\nsociology of work.", "start": 56.335, "duration": 1.695}, {"text": "We're not going to talk a\nwhole lot about what engineers", "start": 58.03, "duration": 3.65}, {"text": "do when they go on the job.", "start": 61.68, "duration": 1.22}, {"text": "We're going to talk about\nwhat we call a learning", "start": 62.9, "duration": 3.502}, {"text": "discipline [INAUDIBLE].", "start": 66.402, "duration": 1.168}, {"text": "Incidentally, that's\nthe focus about this.", "start": 67.57, "duration": 2.772}, {"text": "So we got a lot to follow up on.", "start": 70.342, "duration": 3.297}, {"text": "There's different points.", "start": 73.639, "duration": 3.301}, {"text": "And as I said, I'm teaching\nthis course, Engineering Ethics,", "start": 76.94, "duration": 3.47}, {"text": "as an engagement of two learning\ndisciplines, engineering", "start": 80.41, "duration": 2.96}, {"text": "and ethics.", "start": 83.37, "duration": 0.96}, {"text": "So I got a little\nbit on the ethics,", "start": 84.33, "duration": 1.5}, {"text": "and I'm putting lot\nmore on the engineering,", "start": 85.83, "duration": 2.205}, {"text": "and we'll cover\nother [? things. ?]", "start": 88.035, "duration": 2.995}, {"text": "So with that, I\nthink you're ready.", "start": 91.03, "duration": 5.13}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: Right.", "start": 96.16, "duration": 0.75}, {"text": "JON GRUDEN: OK.", "start": 96.91, "duration": 0.635}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: OK.", "start": 97.545, "duration": 0.625}, {"text": "So the emphasis here is going to\nbe a philosophy of engineering", "start": 98.17, "duration": 4.11}, {"text": "as opposed to ethics.", "start": 102.28, "duration": 0.93}, {"text": "Ethics can be drawn from that.", "start": 103.21, "duration": 2.32}, {"text": "So how would you classify\nengineering again?", "start": 105.53, "duration": 3.17}, {"text": "Metaphysics.", "start": 108.7, "duration": 1.12}, {"text": "JON GRUDEN: Metaphysics--", "start": 109.82, "duration": 1.55}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: Epistemology.", "start": 111.37, "duration": 0.45}, {"text": "JON GRUDEN: Epistemology.", "start": 111.82, "duration": 0.84}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: OK.", "start": 112.66, "duration": 0.625}, {"text": "This is really more about\nmetaphysics and epistemology", "start": 113.285, "duration": 2.465}, {"text": "than it is about ethics.", "start": 115.75, "duration": 1.05}, {"text": "So I won't have too many\nreferences because this is--", "start": 122.32, "duration": 3.84}, {"text": "I didn't spend my life\ntrying to remember", "start": 126.16, "duration": 3.75}, {"text": "everybody who said what.", "start": 129.91, "duration": 1.17}, {"text": "But this is my belief.", "start": 131.08, "duration": 2.88}, {"text": "I think there's a lot of\ntruth to what I have to say.", "start": 133.96, "duration": 3.66}, {"text": "OK, so here we're going\nto ask a question,", "start": 137.62, "duration": 2.67}, {"text": "how do different countries\nthink about engineering?", "start": 140.29, "duration": 3.45}, {"text": "Attitudes.", "start": 143.74, "duration": 2.22}, {"text": "Germany and Japan have\nrelatively positive attitudes", "start": 145.96, "duration": 2.97}, {"text": "on engineering.", "start": 148.93, "duration": 1.38}, {"text": "Britain, much less positive.", "start": 150.31, "duration": 2.19}, {"text": "And in Britain, an engineer\nis someone who runs--", "start": 152.5, "duration": 4.26}, {"text": "who operates engines.", "start": 156.76, "duration": 1.185}, {"text": "In France, contrast,\nthe word \"ingenieur\"", "start": 160.66, "duration": 4.23}, {"text": "is very similar to the\nword for \"ingenious,\"", "start": 164.89, "duration": 2.88}, {"text": "ingenieur or something.", "start": 167.77, "duration": 1.41}, {"text": "I can't pronounce it\nnecessarily very well.", "start": 169.18, "duration": 2.13}, {"text": "Much more positive\nattitude toward engineering", "start": 171.31, "duration": 3.33}, {"text": "than in Britain.", "start": 174.64, "duration": 0.75}, {"text": "Where do we get most\nof our ideas from?", "start": 175.39, "duration": 3.63}, {"text": "Britain.", "start": 179.02, "duration": 1.86}, {"text": "But nevertheless, there is a\nclear difference in the US.", "start": 180.88, "duration": 3.22}, {"text": "No, no.", "start": 184.1, "duration": 0.5}, {"text": "I'd like the lights\non, if you don't mind.", "start": 184.6, "duration": 2.94}, {"text": "There's a clear difference\nin US with Britain", "start": 187.54, "duration": 3.42}, {"text": "we're not quite as positive\nthan it is in Japan,", "start": 190.96, "duration": 2.8}, {"text": "but not as negative\nas in Britain.", "start": 193.76, "duration": 1.82}, {"text": "Somewhere in the middle.", "start": 195.58, "duration": 2.85}, {"text": "So what's our\nclaim-- our thesis?", "start": 198.43, "duration": 2.4}, {"text": "National cultural\nvalues, especially", "start": 200.83, "duration": 2.07}, {"text": "the dominant philosophies\nin a particular country", "start": 202.9, "duration": 3.325}, {"text": "has a great deal to do with\nthese difference in attitudes", "start": 206.225, "duration": 2.375}, {"text": "toward engineering.", "start": 208.6, "duration": 1.32}, {"text": "That's one belief that I have.", "start": 209.92, "duration": 3.12}, {"text": "Also another belief--\na general belief", "start": 213.04, "duration": 2.37}, {"text": "is, there's no right answer.", "start": 215.41, "duration": 3.24}, {"text": "Everything depends on context,\nthere's a context change.", "start": 218.65, "duration": 3.51}, {"text": "Cultures change slowly\nbut they do change.", "start": 222.16, "duration": 4.18}, {"text": "And so for example, if you\ncompare American attitudes", "start": 226.34, "duration": 4.01}, {"text": "toward manufacturing in the\n'60s and then in the '80s", "start": 230.35, "duration": 4.83}, {"text": "and then in this decade,\nthere are a lot of differences", "start": 235.18, "duration": 2.4}, {"text": "because the competitive issues.", "start": 237.58, "duration": 1.99}, {"text": "So it's not a static\nsituation at all.", "start": 239.57, "duration": 3.815}, {"text": "So continuing to a discussion\nof these cultural attitudes.", "start": 249.86, "duration": 7.25}, {"text": "Yeah, compare engineering to\nmedicine, law, and business--", "start": 257.11, "duration": 4.56}, {"text": "MBA type education.", "start": 261.67, "duration": 2.13}, {"text": "The kids that come\nto MIT have been", "start": 266.92, "duration": 2.71}, {"text": "viewed as not entirely,\nbut largely lower", "start": 269.63, "duration": 4.47}, {"text": "middle class or\nmaybe middle class", "start": 274.1, "duration": 2.04}, {"text": "people who are aspiring to\nmove up in the economic chain.", "start": 276.14, "duration": 4.17}, {"text": "Now let's say they have moved\nup in the economic chain.", "start": 280.31, "duration": 3.69}, {"text": "Do they want their kids\nto go into engineering?", "start": 284.0, "duration": 3.36}, {"text": "Do mommies and daddies want\ntheir-- what do they want?", "start": 287.36, "duration": 2.49}, {"text": "They want them to become--", "start": 289.85, "duration": 3.32}, {"text": "and maybe MBAs, right?", "start": 293.17, "duration": 3.16}, {"text": "Now that's not true\nin every country.", "start": 296.33, "duration": 3.18}, {"text": "In Japan, the engineers are\nmore highly valued than lawyers,", "start": 299.51, "duration": 3.12}, {"text": "I would dare say.", "start": 302.63, "duration": 2.88}, {"text": "In India too.", "start": 305.51, "duration": 2.19}, {"text": "In the US, parents want\ntheir children become", "start": 307.7, "duration": 1.89}, {"text": "doctors, lawyers and MBA.", "start": 309.59, "duration": 2.47}, {"text": "If you want more\nwomen and minorities", "start": 312.06, "duration": 1.97}, {"text": "to enter engineering,\nyou can concentrate", "start": 314.03, "duration": 2.955}, {"text": "on getting women minorities\ninto engineering.", "start": 316.985, "duration": 1.875}, {"text": "But will also pay to\nimprove the general attitude", "start": 318.86, "duration": 2.61}, {"text": "toward engineering.", "start": 321.47, "duration": 0.93}, {"text": "It's not bad, but\nit's not as good", "start": 325.34, "duration": 2.46}, {"text": "as it is in other countries.", "start": 327.8, "duration": 2.35}, {"text": "Now you can go too far.", "start": 330.15, "duration": 1.55}, {"text": "In Germany, if you are\na professor, doctor,", "start": 331.7, "duration": 4.14}, {"text": "you go into a company\nin the United States,", "start": 335.84, "duration": 2.038}, {"text": "they'll say, what does he know?", "start": 337.878, "duration": 1.292}, {"text": "He's an academic, et cetera.", "start": 339.17, "duration": 1.8}, {"text": "In Germany, they'll\nsay, yes, sir.", "start": 340.97, "duration": 1.95}, {"text": "Absolutely.", "start": 342.92, "duration": 0.81}, {"text": "Yes, sir.", "start": 343.73, "duration": 0.6}, {"text": "We do what you say.", "start": 344.33, "duration": 1.74}, {"text": "You can go too far.", "start": 346.07, "duration": 2.1}, {"text": "But in another aspect\nwhere problems show up", "start": 348.17, "duration": 4.11}, {"text": "is in Britain or in England.", "start": 352.28, "duration": 2.1}, {"text": "The lords-- if you\nare aristocracy, well,", "start": 354.38, "duration": 3.36}, {"text": "if you have a big company,\nyou need an aristocrat", "start": 357.74, "duration": 2.31}, {"text": "to become the CEO.", "start": 360.05, "duration": 0.847}, {"text": "What do they know\nabout that business?", "start": 360.897, "duration": 1.583}, {"text": "Not lots.", "start": 362.48, "duration": 1.11}, {"text": "But they are aristocrats.", "start": 363.59, "duration": 1.35}, {"text": "By golly, they\ndeserve to be CEOs.", "start": 364.94, "duration": 3.06}, {"text": "That's not necessarily\nthe best thing.", "start": 368.0, "duration": 2.53}, {"text": "So you have problems in\nBritain in technology.", "start": 370.53, "duration": 3.23}, {"text": "Now let me switch\ngears a little bit.", "start": 377.63, "duration": 1.93}, {"text": "And this is getting closer\nto my real interest.", "start": 379.56, "duration": 4.04}, {"text": "Who are the two greatest\nphilosophers in antiquity?", "start": 383.6, "duration": 5.0}, {"text": "It's Plato and Aristotle.", "start": 388.6, "duration": 1.39}, {"text": "Well, I could have said\nMoses and Aristotle,", "start": 389.99, "duration": 1.95}, {"text": "but that requires\nanother lecture.", "start": 391.94, "duration": 4.28}, {"text": "A quote.", "start": 396.22, "duration": 0.61}, {"text": "Plato is Moses writing\nin attic Greek.", "start": 401.58, "duration": 2.475}, {"text": "I didn't make that one up,\nbut that's a side discussion.", "start": 408.98, "duration": 5.86}, {"text": "So the two greatest\nphilosophers in antiquity", "start": 414.84, "duration": 2.315}, {"text": "are Plato and Aristotle.", "start": 417.155, "duration": 2.295}, {"text": "We're talking about 380 BCE.", "start": 419.45, "duration": 2.22}, {"text": "Aristotle was Plato's student.", "start": 421.67, "duration": 1.83}, {"text": "Makes life interesting.", "start": 423.5, "duration": 2.01}, {"text": "Have a very different attitude\non math, science, problem", "start": 425.51, "duration": 2.88}, {"text": "solving, design, organization.", "start": 428.39, "duration": 1.83}, {"text": "And these differences\nbetween Plato and Aristotle", "start": 430.22, "duration": 3.0}, {"text": "show up in the next 2,400 years\nagain and again and again.", "start": 433.22, "duration": 5.58}, {"text": "It's as if somehow\nor other these", "start": 438.8, "duration": 2.28}, {"text": "are the two poles of\nways of thinking deeply", "start": 441.08, "duration": 4.68}, {"text": "about a lot of important issues.", "start": 445.76, "duration": 4.88}, {"text": "Aristotle was\ninterested in science.", "start": 450.64, "duration": 3.4}, {"text": "If you look at what is\nhe known for in biology?", "start": 454.04, "duration": 3.66}, {"text": "Does anybody--\nthe classification", "start": 457.7, "duration": 5.63}, {"text": "of things and the species,\net cetera, families.", "start": 463.33, "duration": 4.92}, {"text": "Oh, he was a born classifier.", "start": 468.25, "duration": 2.98}, {"text": "Now how did he get--", "start": 471.23, "duration": 1.7}, {"text": "he got money to send people out\nthroughout the Greek islands", "start": 472.93, "duration": 6.92}, {"text": "and to get him all the\nvarious kinds of flowers,", "start": 479.85, "duration": 3.0}, {"text": "plants, different kinds of\nanimals and what have you", "start": 482.85, "duration": 3.54}, {"text": "so he could classify it all.", "start": 486.39, "duration": 1.65}, {"text": "Where did he get the money\nto send all these people out?", "start": 488.04, "duration": 2.43}, {"text": "He had a student--", "start": 490.47, "duration": 1.26}, {"text": "famous student, Aristotle did.", "start": 491.73, "duration": 2.61}, {"text": "Who was his student?", "start": 494.34, "duration": 1.84}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: Alexander the Great.", "start": 496.18, "duration": 1.25}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: You got it.", "start": 497.43, "duration": 0.57}, {"text": "Alexander the Great.", "start": 498.0, "duration": 0.99}, {"text": "You know how much money he got\nout of Alexander the Great?", "start": 498.99, "duration": 2.88}, {"text": "30 talents of gold.", "start": 501.87, "duration": 2.63}, {"text": "Yeah, I know, multimillion\ndollars, 30 talents of gold", "start": 504.5, "duration": 4.78}, {"text": "that he spent to\ndo this research.", "start": 509.28, "duration": 4.12}, {"text": "And what did he do?", "start": 513.4, "duration": 0.96}, {"text": "He came up with structures\nfor classifying.", "start": 514.36, "duration": 2.49}, {"text": "What do we call this-- what\ndo I call these structures?", "start": 524.148, "duration": 2.292}, {"text": "These are called\ntree structures.", "start": 526.44, "duration": 1.375}, {"text": "So in his biology work, he\ncreates this classification", "start": 534.91, "duration": 3.97}, {"text": "structure.", "start": 538.88, "duration": 0.5}, {"text": "We still use it.", "start": 539.38, "duration": 0.93}, {"text": "But it turns out that\neverything he did--", "start": 544.28, "duration": 3.6}, {"text": "his mode of thought--", "start": 547.88, "duration": 0.99}, {"text": "everything turned out to\nhave this kind of a diagram.", "start": 548.87, "duration": 2.8}, {"text": "So let's look at the world\naccording to Aristotle.", "start": 551.67, "duration": 5.0}, {"text": "Tip of the world is God.", "start": 556.67, "duration": 2.58}, {"text": "But there is no God.", "start": 559.25, "duration": 1.56}, {"text": "This is called\nthe unmoved mover.", "start": 560.81, "duration": 3.98}, {"text": "Ring a bell?", "start": 564.79, "duration": 1.26}, {"text": "Everything in the world\nis somewhere in the tree.", "start": 566.05, "duration": 4.02}, {"text": "You take a snapshot, you\nknow where everything is.", "start": 573.16, "duration": 3.99}, {"text": "Advance one second, things\nmove, but they're still", "start": 577.15, "duration": 4.41}, {"text": "in a tree structure.", "start": 581.56, "duration": 1.44}, {"text": "Maybe it's slightly different\none, but it's a tree structure.", "start": 583.0, "duration": 2.96}, {"text": "Little problem with this\nAristotelian physics.", "start": 585.96, "duration": 3.01}, {"text": "He cannot express the notion\nwhich is Newton's law,", "start": 588.97, "duration": 6.54}, {"text": "an object in motion remains in\nmotion unless there's a force", "start": 595.51, "duration": 2.79}, {"text": "applied.", "start": 598.3, "duration": 1.08}, {"text": "The concept of motion\ndoesn't exist because all", "start": 599.38, "duration": 3.72}, {"text": "what you have are snapshots.", "start": 603.1, "duration": 2.52}, {"text": "So a thing is always somewhere.", "start": 605.62, "duration": 2.37}, {"text": "It ain't moving.", "start": 607.99, "duration": 2.48}, {"text": "Now you take another\nsnapshot, it's somewhere else.", "start": 610.47, "duration": 2.31}, {"text": "There was something happen,\nwe don't talk about that.", "start": 612.78, "duration": 3.66}, {"text": "But nevertheless, the\npoint I'm trying to make", "start": 616.44, "duration": 2.13}, {"text": "is, in back of Aristotle's\nmind is this notion.", "start": 618.57, "duration": 3.63}, {"text": "And it explains everything.", "start": 622.2, "duration": 2.84}, {"text": "Aristotelian logic.", "start": 625.04, "duration": 2.16}, {"text": "You got it.", "start": 627.2, "duration": 1.29}, {"text": "My guess is, Aristotelian\nethics will have this character.", "start": 628.49, "duration": 2.7}, {"text": "I haven't studied that.", "start": 631.19, "duration": 1.77}, {"text": "My guess is,\nAristotelian, I think,", "start": 632.96, "duration": 1.77}, {"text": "has that character because\nthat's how I Aristotle thought.", "start": 634.73, "duration": 4.45}, {"text": "Everything breaks\ndown, decomposes.", "start": 639.18, "duration": 2.82}, {"text": "Those things get decomposed.", "start": 642.0, "duration": 1.68}, {"text": "Things get into finer\nand finer detail.", "start": 643.68, "duration": 2.7}, {"text": "Empiricism rules.", "start": 646.38, "duration": 1.47}, {"text": "Details matter.", "start": 647.85, "duration": 0.87}, {"text": "Top-down tree structures.", "start": 652.67, "duration": 1.8}, {"text": "He's a reductionist par\nexcellence, loves science.", "start": 654.47, "duration": 5.67}, {"text": "Plato, very different.", "start": 660.14, "duration": 3.125}, {"text": "He's not a scientist,\nhe's a mathematician.", "start": 665.88, "duration": 4.4}, {"text": "Plato describes\nhimself as a geometer.", "start": 670.28, "duration": 2.683}, {"text": "Actually proved the\ntheorem in geometry.", "start": 672.963, "duration": 1.667}, {"text": "He is an idealist.", "start": 677.17, "duration": 3.65}, {"text": "Ideal forms.", "start": 680.82, "duration": 1.21}, {"text": "Remember how many different\nkinds of perfect bodies", "start": 682.03, "duration": 4.76}, {"text": "there are?", "start": 686.79, "duration": 1.05}, {"text": "Things that are ideal.", "start": 687.84, "duration": 2.97}, {"text": "Abstract thinker.", "start": 690.81, "duration": 2.22}, {"text": "Details?", "start": 693.03, "duration": 0.63}, {"text": "Nah.", "start": 693.66, "duration": 1.59}, {"text": "Abstract thinking.", "start": 695.25, "duration": 2.43}, {"text": "What kind of structure does\nhe have in back of his mind?", "start": 697.68, "duration": 2.685}, {"text": "These kinds of pyramids\nare called layered systems.", "start": 706.8, "duration": 2.325}, {"text": "So what's Plato's\nmost famous book?", "start": 714.24, "duration": 4.83}, {"text": "The Republic.", "start": 719.07, "duration": 2.1}, {"text": "Here is society in The Republic.", "start": 721.17, "duration": 3.21}, {"text": "At the tip of the society is a--", "start": 724.38, "duration": 3.866}, {"text": "you remember?", "start": 728.246, "duration": 1.834}, {"text": "Philosopher king.", "start": 730.08, "duration": 1.183}, {"text": "That's right.", "start": 731.263, "duration": 0.542}, {"text": "That this level of people\nwho work together-- they're", "start": 737.1, "duration": 3.0}, {"text": "not individualistic.", "start": 740.1, "duration": 1.11}, {"text": "This is highly\nindividualistically oriented.", "start": 741.21, "duration": 2.43}, {"text": "I'm not saying Aristotle\nwas as individualistic", "start": 743.64, "duration": 2.46}, {"text": "as people became later.", "start": 746.1, "duration": 2.47}, {"text": "But that lends itself\nto individualism.", "start": 748.57, "duration": 2.75}, {"text": "These people are together.", "start": 751.32, "duration": 3.03}, {"text": "This is communism before Marx.", "start": 754.35, "duration": 3.39}, {"text": "These are called the guardians.", "start": 757.74, "duration": 3.62}, {"text": "And they are the top\nlayer of this society--", "start": 761.36, "duration": 3.33}, {"text": "the perfect society.", "start": 764.69, "duration": 3.42}, {"text": "And also called the gold layer.", "start": 768.11, "duration": 2.88}, {"text": "And therefore, this is\nsilver and this is bronze.", "start": 770.99, "duration": 3.42}, {"text": "And people here wind\nup in this level", "start": 774.41, "duration": 4.11}, {"text": "because they couldn't pass\ncertain educational levels.", "start": 778.52, "duration": 5.83}, {"text": "And they wind up in here\nbecause intermediate educational", "start": 784.35, "duration": 3.02}, {"text": "level-- the smartest people,\nthe ones who pass all the tests,", "start": 787.37, "duration": 3.78}, {"text": "they wind up in here.", "start": 791.15, "duration": 1.33}, {"text": "And the absolute smartest\nperson at any given time", "start": 792.48, "duration": 2.18}, {"text": "is the philosopher king.", "start": 794.66, "duration": 2.77}, {"text": "And the key is here, these guys\nare absolutely worked together.", "start": 797.43, "duration": 4.53}, {"text": "It's only a theorist\nlike Plato could", "start": 801.96, "duration": 2.7}, {"text": "make an unbelievable\nmistake about society,", "start": 804.66, "duration": 3.09}, {"text": "which is what he did.", "start": 807.75, "duration": 1.62}, {"text": "In order to be sure\nthat these guardians who", "start": 809.37, "duration": 3.93}, {"text": "determine who passes a test\nwon't give their own children", "start": 813.3, "duration": 6.3}, {"text": "an unfair advantage,\nhe wanted to be", "start": 819.6, "duration": 2.91}, {"text": "sure they didn't know who\ntheir own children were.", "start": 822.51, "duration": 2.73}, {"text": "Therefore, all the women\nin here are at large.", "start": 825.24, "duration": 4.21}, {"text": "No one gets married\nto a particular person", "start": 829.45, "duration": 4.31}, {"text": "because then they'd\nknow who was the father.", "start": 833.76, "duration": 2.1}, {"text": "Only a theorist could\nmake this mistake.", "start": 838.77, "duration": 3.87}, {"text": "There's nothing\nperfect about this.", "start": 842.64, "duration": 1.69}, {"text": "It's just an entirely different\nway of thinking-- abstraction,", "start": 844.33, "duration": 4.01}, {"text": "reductionism.", "start": 848.34, "duration": 3.48}, {"text": "Plato was a member of\nthe Greek aristocracy.", "start": 851.82, "duration": 4.89}, {"text": "Of course, his party\nfell out of favor,", "start": 856.71, "duration": 3.45}, {"text": "and he got pretty pissed off.", "start": 860.16, "duration": 3.76}, {"text": "Maybe you can cut that out.", "start": 863.92, "duration": 2.58}, {"text": "He got quite unhappy at\nthe killing of Socrates", "start": 866.5, "duration": 4.46}, {"text": "at the fact that his party lost,\net cetera, with the Athenians.", "start": 870.96, "duration": 4.32}, {"text": "And he tried to create an\nideal society insistently,", "start": 875.28, "duration": 7.32}, {"text": "but that didn't work.", "start": 882.6, "duration": 1.35}, {"text": "But in any case, it's an\nentirely different way", "start": 883.95, "duration": 2.73}, {"text": "of thinking is my claim.", "start": 886.68, "duration": 2.76}, {"text": "There isn't anything right.", "start": 889.44, "duration": 3.22}, {"text": "And engineering-- let's\ngo back to engineering--", "start": 892.66, "duration": 2.73}, {"text": "needs both science\nand mathematics.", "start": 895.39, "duration": 2.79}, {"text": "And my claim is mathematics\nis a different-- is ideal,", "start": 898.18, "duration": 3.12}, {"text": "science is empirical.", "start": 901.3, "duration": 1.68}, {"text": "You need both the abstract\ncapability from science", "start": 902.98, "duration": 3.33}, {"text": "and the reductionist\nworldview of mathematics.", "start": 906.31, "duration": 4.74}, {"text": "And if you have a society\nthat is highly empirical,", "start": 911.05, "duration": 2.97}, {"text": "like the British\nemphasizing science,", "start": 914.02, "duration": 2.37}, {"text": "you may not get\ngood engineering.", "start": 916.39, "duration": 1.71}, {"text": "If you have a society it's\ntoo heavily abstract--", "start": 918.1, "duration": 3.06}, {"text": "that's unlikely--", "start": 921.16, "duration": 1.86}, {"text": "then you probably\nalso won't work.", "start": 923.02, "duration": 1.54}, {"text": "I can't think of an\nexample like that quite.", "start": 924.56, "duration": 2.15}, {"text": "But a society that has\nboth working for it,", "start": 926.71, "duration": 4.53}, {"text": "like the Germans or the\nJapanese, then engineering", "start": 931.24, "duration": 4.88}, {"text": "will flourish.", "start": 936.12, "duration": 0.96}, {"text": "That's my argument.", "start": 937.08, "duration": 0.975}, {"text": "Here is a structure.", "start": 943.05, "duration": 3.28}, {"text": "I claim that when Americans\ntalk about hierarchies,", "start": 946.33, "duration": 3.72}, {"text": "they usually think this\nway, almost entirely.", "start": 950.05, "duration": 4.05}, {"text": "But this is also a hierarchy.", "start": 954.1, "duration": 1.32}, {"text": "People here are in some sense\nhigher than people there.", "start": 958.0, "duration": 2.89}, {"text": "Likewise, people here are\nhigher than that, et cetera.", "start": 960.89, "duration": 2.9}, {"text": "This philosopher king\nis the highest of all.", "start": 963.79, "duration": 2.68}, {"text": "Give me an organization\nthat is modeled like that.", "start": 966.47, "duration": 3.92}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: A university.", "start": 973.36, "duration": 1.378}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: A university.", "start": 974.738, "duration": 1.042}, {"text": "Exactly.", "start": 975.78, "duration": 2.44}, {"text": "And this is the--", "start": 978.22, "duration": 3.44}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE].", "start": 981.66, "duration": 1.527}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: Provost.", "start": 983.187, "duration": 0.833}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: Provost.", "start": 984.02, "duration": 1.872}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: Yeah.", "start": 985.892, "duration": 0.708}, {"text": "This is the provost.", "start": 986.6, "duration": 1.16}, {"text": "These are the deans,\ndepartment heads, faculty.", "start": 987.76, "duration": 3.93}, {"text": "Or maybe these are\nthe full professors,", "start": 991.69, "duration": 2.07}, {"text": "associate professors,\nand assistant professor.", "start": 993.76, "duration": 2.94}, {"text": "It's a pure\nthree-layered hierarchy.", "start": 996.7, "duration": 2.95}, {"text": "And in olden times,\nall the full professors", "start": 999.65, "duration": 2.55}, {"text": "would get together and\nmake decisions as a body.", "start": 1002.2, "duration": 6.88}, {"text": "What happened in a critical\nyear for University in 1807,", "start": 1009.08, "duration": 4.89}, {"text": "is that there was\nthis character--", "start": 1013.97, "duration": 3.0}, {"text": "forget his name right now--", "start": 1016.97, "duration": 3.36}, {"text": "in the hospital in Berlin\nand he had this notion", "start": 1020.33, "duration": 4.769}, {"text": "that he had to split\nthe surgeons from the--", "start": 1025.099, "duration": 4.74}, {"text": "who are the guys\nwho checked to see", "start": 1029.839, "duration": 3.23}, {"text": "if the stuff was done right?", "start": 1033.069, "duration": 1.601}, {"text": "The pathologist.", "start": 1034.67, "duration": 1.142}, {"text": "They were constantly\nfighting each other.", "start": 1035.812, "duration": 1.708}, {"text": "Pathologist saying,\nyou made a mistake.", "start": 1037.52, "duration": 1.625}, {"text": "The surgeon said, no, no, no.", "start": 1039.145, "duration": 1.208}, {"text": "I did perfect.", "start": 1040.353, "duration": 0.766}, {"text": "Don't tell me I made a mistake.", "start": 1041.119, "duration": 1.831}, {"text": "So he created departments.", "start": 1042.95, "duration": 2.159}, {"text": "And departments break\nup the university", "start": 1045.109, "duration": 3.481}, {"text": "and break up this structure.", "start": 1048.59, "duration": 2.64}, {"text": "So this was in Berlin in 1807.", "start": 1051.23, "duration": 2.34}, {"text": "And by 1880, again in\nthe medical school,", "start": 1053.57, "duration": 4.53}, {"text": "this was at Johns Hopkins.", "start": 1058.1, "duration": 3.34}, {"text": "And in 1885, it\nmade it to Harvard.", "start": 1061.44, "duration": 3.0}, {"text": "And ever since, we've had\nit in the United States.", "start": 1064.44, "duration": 5.22}, {"text": "But where did the\nUniversity get their idea", "start": 1069.66, "duration": 2.85}, {"text": "how to organize things?", "start": 1072.51, "duration": 2.92}, {"text": "You said last time, the\noriginal universities", "start": 1075.43, "duration": 3.27}, {"text": "like Bologna and Paris--", "start": 1078.7, "duration": 2.54}, {"text": "especially Paris and Oxford\nwere associated with what?", "start": 1081.24, "duration": 3.997}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: Well the way I said\nit was that they were associated", "start": 1085.237, "duration": 2.583}, {"text": "with the Holy Roman Empire.", "start": 1087.82, "duration": 1.68}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: Holy Roman Empire.", "start": 1089.5, "duration": 1.32}, {"text": "You're getting close.", "start": 1090.82, "duration": 1.29}, {"text": "So where does this come from?", "start": 1092.11, "duration": 3.24}, {"text": "The church.", "start": 1095.35, "duration": 1.44}, {"text": "The Pope.", "start": 1096.79, "duration": 1.2}, {"text": "The Cardinals.", "start": 1097.99, "duration": 1.14}, {"text": "The bishops.", "start": 1099.13, "duration": 0.67}, {"text": "The priests.", "start": 1099.8, "duration": 0.5}, {"text": "Now let me tell you, Moses\nwas the original Platonist.", "start": 1103.22, "duration": 4.83}, {"text": "This shows up in the Bible.", "start": 1108.05, "duration": 1.125}, {"text": "How did it show up in the Bible?", "start": 1113.447, "duration": 1.333}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: As the fathers.", "start": 1120.54, "duration": 1.47}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: Close.", "start": 1122.01, "duration": 0.75}, {"text": "High priests, the kohanim,\nthe priests, the Levis,", "start": 1122.76, "duration": 8.02}, {"text": "the Israelites.", "start": 1130.78, "duration": 1.02}, {"text": "You want to talk\nabout neural networks?", "start": 1134.39, "duration": 1.625}, {"text": "It ain't quite like that,\nbut you're getting close.", "start": 1140.41, "duration": 3.81}, {"text": "So we see examples.", "start": 1144.22, "duration": 2.67}, {"text": "In the West, Plato and\nhis mode of thought", "start": 1146.89, "duration": 5.86}, {"text": "was dominant until about 1,300.", "start": 1152.75, "duration": 6.8}, {"text": "And what happened?", "start": 1159.55, "duration": 1.92}, {"text": "What happened was starting--\nlet me guess, around 1150,", "start": 1161.47, "duration": 5.85}, {"text": "people rediscovered Aristotle.", "start": 1167.32, "duration": 2.79}, {"text": "His writings were lost.", "start": 1170.11, "duration": 1.47}, {"text": "And the rediscovery\nstarted with the Arabs.", "start": 1174.52, "duration": 6.17}, {"text": "They had access to Aristotle's\nwritings from the Middle East.", "start": 1180.69, "duration": 4.5}, {"text": "And it went through\npeople like Maimonides.", "start": 1185.19, "duration": 6.03}, {"text": "And then finally, it went\nthrough St. Thomas Aquinas", "start": 1191.22, "duration": 3.51}, {"text": "around 1250, let me guess.", "start": 1194.73, "duration": 2.1}, {"text": "And by 1250, St. Thomas\nthen redefined Catholicism", "start": 1196.83, "duration": 6.15}, {"text": "to be more in line with\nAristotelian logical,", "start": 1202.98, "duration": 6.26}, {"text": "rational, somewhat\nmore individualistic--", "start": 1209.24, "duration": 3.3}, {"text": "not so much science based.", "start": 1215.09, "duration": 1.13}, {"text": "I don't think it's St.\nThomas really cared", "start": 1216.22, "duration": 1.75}, {"text": "much for the science.", "start": 1217.97, "duration": 1.35}, {"text": "But that whole\ndevelopment beginning 1250", "start": 1219.32, "duration": 3.84}, {"text": "led, eventually, to the\nRenaissance to a science mode", "start": 1223.16, "duration": 5.4}, {"text": "emphasis, et cetera,\net cetera, et cetera.", "start": 1228.56, "duration": 2.64}, {"text": "And that's why the name\nof the rows that we", "start": 1231.2, "duration": 3.15}, {"text": "were talking about last time\nare such an interesting book.", "start": 1234.35, "duration": 3.57}, {"text": "Because it was written\nfor about this time when", "start": 1237.92, "duration": 3.96}, {"text": "the transition from Platonic\nthought or Neoplatonic thought", "start": 1241.88, "duration": 4.05}, {"text": "of the church to\nAristotelian thought", "start": 1245.93, "duration": 2.52}, {"text": "could be influenced\none way or the other.", "start": 1248.45, "duration": 4.02}, {"text": "And that's why the\nmurders occurred", "start": 1252.47, "duration": 3.03}, {"text": "when people read Aristotle's\nlogic, which book had", "start": 1255.5, "duration": 4.68}, {"text": "a tremendous influence\non the way people", "start": 1260.18, "duration": 2.61}, {"text": "were thinking in the\nRenaissance and beyond.", "start": 1262.79, "duration": 2.91}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE].", "start": 1269.463, "duration": 0.917}, {"text": "This is going to be an\nassignment [INAUDIBLE]..", "start": 1270.38, "duration": 1.958}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: OK, there he is.", "start": 1272.338, "duration": 2.962}, {"text": "Sean Connery is the guy who\nfigures out who killed and why.", "start": 1275.3, "duration": 5.37}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: And he was roughly--", "start": 1284.62, "duration": 1.62}, {"text": "brings a conflation\nof several characters", "start": 1286.24, "duration": 1.93}, {"text": "who are roughly William\n[INAUDIBLE],, wouldn't you say?", "start": 1288.17, "duration": 2.292}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: I don't if he\nwas William [INAUDIBLE],,", "start": 1290.805, "duration": 2.125}, {"text": "but the author\nobviously made it up.", "start": 1292.93, "duration": 4.92}, {"text": "But he had a point.", "start": 1297.85, "duration": 1.41}, {"text": "And I think that's the point.", "start": 1299.26, "duration": 1.65}, {"text": "That here is a\ntremendous sea change", "start": 1300.91, "duration": 3.06}, {"text": "in Western thinking\nfrom a Neoplatonic--", "start": 1303.97, "duration": 2.76}, {"text": "I'm not saying Plato is right.", "start": 1306.73, "duration": 2.03}, {"text": "It's different.", "start": 1308.76, "duration": 0.97}, {"text": "And it has advantage in\nsome cases, disadvantage", "start": 1309.73, "duration": 2.16}, {"text": "in other cases.", "start": 1311.89, "duration": 1.14}, {"text": "A tremendous sea change\ngoing on in mode of thought.", "start": 1313.03, "duration": 5.51}, {"text": "So this guy was trying to hold\nback and say, no, no, no, no.", "start": 1318.54, "duration": 2.5}, {"text": "Let's keep the order.", "start": 1321.04, "duration": 1.86}, {"text": "In a sense, this\nslide coming up,", "start": 1328.86, "duration": 3.45}, {"text": "Catholic Church historically\ninfluenced by Neoplatonic.", "start": 1332.31, "duration": 2.768}, {"text": "Organizational hierarchies\nlargely layered.", "start": 1335.078, "duration": 1.792}, {"text": "Pope, college of Cardinal,\nsynods of bishops.", "start": 1336.87, "duration": 3.6}, {"text": "Aristotle's closer\nto Protestant.", "start": 1340.47, "duration": 2.34}, {"text": "And Protestantism is closer\nto science, et cetera.", "start": 1345.5, "duration": 5.93}, {"text": "It's more network\noriented as supposed", "start": 1351.43, "duration": 2.04}, {"text": "to centralize hierarchies.", "start": 1353.47, "duration": 1.38}, {"text": "Lends itself to more\nnetwork distributed things.", "start": 1354.85, "duration": 4.8}, {"text": "And that's the final comment.", "start": 1359.65, "duration": 1.71}, {"text": "Be careful, dear student.", "start": 1361.36, "duration": 1.23}, {"text": "Not all hierarchies are alike.", "start": 1362.59, "duration": 1.5}, {"text": "Americans think all\nhierarchies are like this.", "start": 1364.09, "duration": 4.08}, {"text": "But here is an example,\nthis is hierarchical", "start": 1368.17, "duration": 2.46}, {"text": "in a different way.", "start": 1370.63, "duration": 1.6}, {"text": "And it has advantages\nand disadvantages.", "start": 1372.23, "duration": 2.45}, {"text": "I would claim-- I don't\nif I do it in the slides--", "start": 1374.68, "duration": 2.37}, {"text": "that Japanese organizations\nare more like this", "start": 1377.05, "duration": 2.43}, {"text": "than they are like that.", "start": 1379.48, "duration": 1.08}, {"text": "Internally, locally,\nthey are tree structured.", "start": 1380.56, "duration": 2.94}, {"text": "But there is a way of looking at\nthe structure of the firm which", "start": 1383.5, "duration": 4.35}, {"text": "has this character as well.", "start": 1387.85, "duration": 4.13}, {"text": "Because Japan does have\nthat set of approaches.", "start": 1391.98, "duration": 4.53}, {"text": "So philosophy and religion\nintimately connected,", "start": 1399.88, "duration": 4.36}, {"text": "intimately connected\nto ways of thinking.", "start": 1404.24, "duration": 4.213}, {"text": "Engineering is\ngoing to flourish--", "start": 1408.453, "duration": 1.417}, {"text": "I said this before-- in nations\nthat have both a holistic, as", "start": 1409.87, "duration": 2.87}, {"text": "well as reductionistic model.", "start": 1412.74, "duration": 1.26}, {"text": "So Plato is the ultimate\nholistic thinker, but also", "start": 1414.0, "duration": 4.74}, {"text": "rational.", "start": 1418.74, "duration": 0.6}, {"text": "So in contrast to\nmysticism, which", "start": 1419.34, "duration": 2.91}, {"text": "tends to be holistic and\nnot necessarily rational,", "start": 1422.25, "duration": 3.93}, {"text": "Plato is rational.", "start": 1426.18, "duration": 1.9}, {"text": "But he also tends to\nthink holistically.", "start": 1428.08, "duration": 3.74}, {"text": "So these guys all work together.", "start": 1431.82, "duration": 2.68}, {"text": "It's the whole.", "start": 1434.5, "duration": 1.31}, {"text": "We are trying to\nimprove this society.", "start": 1435.81, "duration": 3.923}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: I have a question.", "start": 1439.733, "duration": 1.167}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: Sure.", "start": 1440.9, "duration": 0.708}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: The Platonic\nmodel over there.", "start": 1444.19, "duration": 3.122}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: Yeah.", "start": 1447.312, "duration": 0.708}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: When we talk\nabout the university.", "start": 1448.02, "duration": 3.313}, {"text": "Let's talk about the\nuniversity, but this time", "start": 1451.333, "duration": 1.917}, {"text": "is talking about it in\nterms of curriculum.", "start": 1453.25, "duration": 3.23}, {"text": "And let's talk about how\nwe organize the curriculum.", "start": 1456.48, "duration": 3.36}, {"text": "Now let's talk about\ntwo kinds of curriculum.", "start": 1459.84, "duration": 3.88}, {"text": "General education and\nspecial education.", "start": 1463.72, "duration": 5.2}, {"text": "It's just occurred\nto me that maybe we", "start": 1468.92, "duration": 1.74}, {"text": "could think of general\neducation in the Platonic model,", "start": 1470.66, "duration": 2.62}, {"text": "because--", "start": 1473.28, "duration": 0.5}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: That's\nthe way it was.", "start": 1473.78, "duration": 1.43}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: --at each\nlevel, everybody", "start": 1475.21, "duration": 1.6}, {"text": "knows a little bit of\nsomething about it.", "start": 1476.81, "duration": 2.148}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: But\nthat's exactly right.", "start": 1478.958, "duration": 1.542}, {"text": "When you think of Middle\nAges, the university", "start": 1480.5, "duration": 2.97}, {"text": "taught either quadrillion or\nthe four things, the rhetoric", "start": 1483.47, "duration": 4.41}, {"text": "and geometry.", "start": 1487.88, "duration": 1.83}, {"text": "And everybody was\nlearning the same thing.", "start": 1489.71, "duration": 2.37}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: Yes.", "start": 1492.08, "duration": 1.2}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: The specialization\nstarts occurring", "start": 1493.28, "duration": 3.29}, {"text": "with the medical schools.", "start": 1496.57, "duration": 2.99}, {"text": "The medical system said, we\nneed you to understand anatomy.", "start": 1499.56, "duration": 3.78}, {"text": "It isn't one of the four things\nthat everybody is taught.", "start": 1503.34, "duration": 3.81}, {"text": "So the medical schools force\nthe issue on specialization.", "start": 1507.15, "duration": 3.57}, {"text": "And they force the issue\non department structure.", "start": 1510.72, "duration": 3.37}, {"text": "There was no department\nstructure in the Middle Ages.", "start": 1514.09, "duration": 3.87}, {"text": "All the professors were--", "start": 1517.96, "duration": 1.32}, {"text": "full professors were alike.", "start": 1519.28, "duration": 1.8}, {"text": "And they would teach\ntheir courses all right.", "start": 1521.08, "duration": 2.19}, {"text": "But they'd get together\nfor lunch or whatever.", "start": 1523.27, "duration": 3.15}, {"text": "We work together.", "start": 1526.42, "duration": 1.74}, {"text": "We're in it together.", "start": 1528.16, "duration": 3.3}, {"text": "Oh, now, they would\nmake money by asking", "start": 1531.46, "duration": 2.58}, {"text": "the students to pay tuition\nif they attend their classes.", "start": 1534.04, "duration": 3.42}, {"text": "But it seems like the\ndepartmental structure really", "start": 1537.46, "duration": 3.69}, {"text": "made it an absolute sea change\nin the nature of the research", "start": 1541.15, "duration": 4.86}, {"text": "university.", "start": 1546.01, "duration": 0.87}, {"text": "So how does Germany get\nto have this holistic and", "start": 1551.02, "duration": 2.64}, {"text": "reductionistic thing?", "start": 1553.66, "duration": 2.49}, {"text": "Partly because Germany\nis Catholic in the South,", "start": 1556.15, "duration": 3.39}, {"text": "Protestant in the North.", "start": 1559.54, "duration": 1.29}, {"text": "And they have melded\nthe two views.", "start": 1560.83, "duration": 3.81}, {"text": "I'm not saying Catholicism\nis super Platonic,", "start": 1564.64, "duration": 3.39}, {"text": "it's more Platonic\nthan it is not.", "start": 1568.03, "duration": 3.99}, {"text": "They've melded these views.", "start": 1572.02, "duration": 2.82}, {"text": "And you could argue, well,\npeople say, how did Nazism", "start": 1574.84, "duration": 3.0}, {"text": "succeed when the Germans\nare so highly educated", "start": 1577.84, "duration": 4.32}, {"text": "and this, that, and\nthe other thing?", "start": 1582.16, "duration": 1.75}, {"text": "And the answer is\nHitler beat them up", "start": 1583.91, "duration": 2.06}, {"text": "and he tried to\nbreak the melding.", "start": 1585.97, "duration": 2.58}, {"text": "He tried to get the Southern\npoint of view become dominant", "start": 1588.55, "duration": 6.6}, {"text": "over the northern view.", "start": 1595.15, "duration": 1.98}, {"text": "Rather than melding,\nbreak the melding.", "start": 1597.13, "duration": 3.33}, {"text": "And he took a while,\nbut he succeeded.", "start": 1600.46, "duration": 3.58}, {"text": "And so the Germans\nbehaved in ways", "start": 1604.04, "duration": 2.57}, {"text": "that were surprising to\npeople who knew them.", "start": 1606.61, "duration": 3.17}, {"text": "The Japanese have three\ndominant religions", "start": 1609.78, "duration": 2.46}, {"text": "and have the most\nflexible culture", "start": 1612.24, "duration": 4.74}, {"text": "in terms of attitudes\ntoward reductionism holism.", "start": 1616.98, "duration": 2.67}, {"text": "They could switch on a dime.", "start": 1619.65, "duration": 4.41}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: On this point.", "start": 1624.06, "duration": 1.06}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: Yeah.", "start": 1625.12, "duration": 1.545}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: You have to say\nsomething special about Germany", "start": 1626.665, "duration": 2.375}, {"text": "when it comes to the\nuniversity, the research they", "start": 1629.04, "duration": 1.944}, {"text": "do in Germany.", "start": 1630.984, "duration": 0.716}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: Yes.", "start": 1631.7, "duration": 0.667}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: Because everybody else\nwas talking about handing down", "start": 1632.367, "duration": 2.753}, {"text": "traditional knowledge.", "start": 1635.12, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "I mean, nobody was\nadding to Aristotle.", "start": 1637.37, "duration": 3.78}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: No, that changed.", "start": 1641.15, "duration": 1.83}, {"text": "Indeed.", "start": 1642.98, "duration": 0.9}, {"text": "So what the first wave,\nsay between St. Thomas", "start": 1643.88, "duration": 4.08}, {"text": "and say 1550-1600,\nthe first wave,", "start": 1647.96, "duration": 4.53}, {"text": "they viewed the Greeks whom\nthey rediscovered as God.", "start": 1652.49, "duration": 5.37}, {"text": "I mean what they said went.", "start": 1657.86, "duration": 3.04}, {"text": "So let me give you an example.", "start": 1660.9, "duration": 2.01}, {"text": "I may have the numbers wrong\nbut the idea is just right.", "start": 1662.91, "duration": 3.08}, {"text": "So when Aristotle said--", "start": 1665.99, "duration": 1.83}, {"text": "and Aristotle, remember,\nwas somebody who'd", "start": 1667.82, "duration": 2.665}, {"text": "gathered a lot of information.", "start": 1670.485, "duration": 1.25}, {"text": "And he had these\n30 talents of gold", "start": 1671.735, "duration": 1.74}, {"text": "that allowed them\nto do these things.", "start": 1673.475, "duration": 1.665}, {"text": "When Aristotle said that\na fly had eight legs,", "start": 1675.14, "duration": 3.39}, {"text": "no one bothered to check.", "start": 1678.53, "duration": 3.72}, {"text": "Well, the flies have six legs.", "start": 1682.25, "duration": 1.95}, {"text": "Oh, maybe he said six\nand they have eight.", "start": 1684.2, "duration": 1.89}, {"text": "But whatever it was,\nthey got it wrong.", "start": 1686.09, "duration": 1.92}, {"text": "No one checked because\nAristotle said so.", "start": 1688.01, "duration": 4.01}, {"text": "In medicine for hundreds\nof thousands years,", "start": 1692.02, "duration": 3.15}, {"text": "Galen's book on medicine--", "start": 1695.17, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "Galen said, I tell\nyou what to do.", "start": 1697.42, "duration": 2.15}, {"text": "You take the blood out, you\ngive them these root extracts.", "start": 1699.57, "duration": 4.42}, {"text": "None of which works.", "start": 1703.99, "duration": 1.44}, {"text": "But Galen said, I\nknow what I'm doing.", "start": 1705.43, "duration": 2.67}, {"text": "And he wrote at that time\nperiod through the Middle Ages,", "start": 1708.1, "duration": 3.48}, {"text": "that's what they did.", "start": 1711.58, "duration": 1.27}, {"text": "No one bothered to check.", "start": 1712.85, "duration": 3.4}, {"text": "Science begins slowly\nbut surely around,", "start": 1716.25, "duration": 3.87}, {"text": "let's say, 1600 suddenly.", "start": 1720.12, "duration": 2.49}, {"text": "And they are doing experiments.", "start": 1722.61, "duration": 1.535}, {"text": "In the Middle Ages, they\nweren't doing experiments.", "start": 1724.145, "duration": 2.125}, {"text": "They were buying\nAristotle's line.", "start": 1726.27, "duration": 3.21}, {"text": "The philosopher was telling\nyou to do this, it is.", "start": 1729.48, "duration": 4.92}, {"text": "It's only later that\nthey actually changed.", "start": 1734.4, "duration": 3.28}, {"text": "But the fact is that\nthey Aristotle was", "start": 1737.68, "duration": 2.24}, {"text": "a necessary bridge between\nthe Neoplatonic thought", "start": 1739.92, "duration": 4.47}, {"text": "of the Dark Ages and the first\nMillennium, say, after Christ.", "start": 1744.39, "duration": 5.04}, {"text": "And it was a necessary bridge\nto allow the science to develop.", "start": 1749.43, "duration": 5.715}, {"text": "So Germany and Japan\nhave a positive attitude", "start": 1761.63, "duration": 2.1}, {"text": "toward engineering.", "start": 1763.73, "duration": 1.11}, {"text": "And in the 1980s, when we were\nlosing in the car manufacturing", "start": 1764.84, "duration": 5.46}, {"text": "to the Germans and the\nJapanese, especially Japanese,", "start": 1770.3, "duration": 3.0}, {"text": "we were really trying\nto figure out why is it", "start": 1773.3, "duration": 2.07}, {"text": "that they were doing so well.", "start": 1775.37, "duration": 1.32}, {"text": "And again, I would say it's a\nlittle bit of this issue coming", "start": 1776.69, "duration": 3.87}, {"text": "up.", "start": 1780.56, "duration": 0.81}, {"text": "That is here, we were highly\nindividualistic, weren't", "start": 1781.37, "duration": 4.56}, {"text": "working as teams as well.", "start": 1785.93, "duration": 1.54}, {"text": "We learned the Japanese\nworked in teams.", "start": 1787.47, "duration": 2.46}, {"text": "And so we picked up on some of\nthese things in the early '90s.", "start": 1789.93, "duration": 2.9}, {"text": "Teamwork, dah, dah,\ndah, dah, dah, dah.", "start": 1792.83, "duration": 2.49}, {"text": "Did we really understand\nhow the Japanese work?", "start": 1795.32, "duration": 2.43}, {"text": "No.", "start": 1797.75, "duration": 1.26}, {"text": "But we made a fair progress.", "start": 1799.01, "duration": 2.82}, {"text": "I mean, all cars nowadays,\nbased on teamwork", "start": 1801.83, "duration": 2.967}, {"text": "and a number of other\nthings we've picked up", "start": 1804.797, "duration": 1.833}, {"text": "from the Japanese,\nreally are better", "start": 1806.63, "duration": 2.31}, {"text": "than they were otherwise.", "start": 1808.94, "duration": 1.59}, {"text": "Now it turns out the Japanese\ndidn't stop improving", "start": 1810.53, "duration": 3.57}, {"text": "and we didn't realize that.", "start": 1814.1, "duration": 2.85}, {"text": "So what's happening\nin the automobile", "start": 1816.95, "duration": 1.79}, {"text": "industry in the United\nStates is that they", "start": 1818.74, "duration": 1.75}, {"text": "have taken their understanding\nof the Toyota process,", "start": 1820.49, "duration": 3.75}, {"text": "as it's called.", "start": 1824.24, "duration": 1.95}, {"text": "The lean manufacturing\nis another term for it.", "start": 1826.19, "duration": 2.617}, {"text": "That they've taken\ntheir understanding", "start": 1828.807, "duration": 1.583}, {"text": "and they've made\nit into a religion.", "start": 1830.39, "duration": 2.43}, {"text": "You do this, you do that.", "start": 1832.82, "duration": 2.04}, {"text": "Reduce waste.", "start": 1834.86, "duration": 1.5}, {"text": "You do just in time.", "start": 1836.36, "duration": 1.44}, {"text": "You do this, you do that.", "start": 1837.8, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "The Japanese-- the Toyota\npeople have figured out,", "start": 1840.05, "duration": 2.17}, {"text": "hey, you know, that doesn't\nwork as well as we should.", "start": 1842.22, "duration": 2.84}, {"text": "For example, it used\nto be that the Toyota", "start": 1845.06, "duration": 4.98}, {"text": "people had this line where you\nbasically put the car together.", "start": 1850.04, "duration": 4.81}, {"text": "And the idea was that things\nmove without stopping.", "start": 1854.85, "duration": 5.51}, {"text": "Now if anybody screwed up, your\njob as somebody on the line", "start": 1860.36, "duration": 4.44}, {"text": "it's to pull the\ncord, stop the line,", "start": 1864.8, "duration": 2.7}, {"text": "fix the thing at its\nsource-- not at the end when", "start": 1867.5, "duration": 2.55}, {"text": "it's hard to fix.", "start": 1870.05, "duration": 1.15}, {"text": "Fix it at its source,\nand then continue.", "start": 1871.2, "duration": 3.95}, {"text": "Well, these lines were very\nlong and they had maybe 50", "start": 1875.15, "duration": 3.09}, {"text": "different people on the line.", "start": 1878.24, "duration": 1.53}, {"text": "And these poor Japanese\nwho noticed an error,", "start": 1879.77, "duration": 3.66}, {"text": "they were afraid.", "start": 1883.43, "duration": 1.05}, {"text": "Oh, my God.", "start": 1884.48, "duration": 1.08}, {"text": "We stopped this 50 person line.", "start": 1885.56, "duration": 3.06}, {"text": "Maybe I shouldn't.", "start": 1888.62, "duration": 1.52}, {"text": "Oh, I'm scared.", "start": 1890.14, "duration": 1.46}, {"text": "I'm not going to do it.", "start": 1891.6, "duration": 1.13}, {"text": "So they figured this out.", "start": 1892.73, "duration": 2.85}, {"text": "They said, hey, we can't\nhave a 50-person line moving", "start": 1895.58, "duration": 4.26}, {"text": "without having\neverything just in time.", "start": 1899.84, "duration": 4.44}, {"text": "No stacking up of\nanything, blah, blah, blah.", "start": 1904.28, "duration": 3.31}, {"text": "And if we really want to\nfix the error at its source,", "start": 1907.59, "duration": 2.63}, {"text": "we're going to have to break\nit up into lines of maybe 10.", "start": 1910.22, "duration": 3.69}, {"text": "Now psychologically, you're\nmore likely to pull the cord", "start": 1913.91, "duration": 3.63}, {"text": "when you should, et cetera.", "start": 1917.54, "duration": 2.01}, {"text": "Did the Americans\nunderstand this?", "start": 1919.55, "duration": 1.59}, {"text": "No.", "start": 1921.14, "duration": 0.57}, {"text": "Because they had the rules.", "start": 1921.71, "duration": 3.51}, {"text": "They're following\nthe rules of 1988.", "start": 1925.22, "duration": 2.01}, {"text": "And by 1998, they were\nfalling behinder and behinder.", "start": 1927.23, "duration": 2.64}, {"text": "We learned from the\nJapanese, but not enough.", "start": 1933.52, "duration": 2.04}, {"text": "Now of all the major\nmanufacturing countries", "start": 1942.18, "duration": 3.42}, {"text": "in the world, England\nhad the most problem.", "start": 1945.6, "duration": 4.66}, {"text": "So not only is it largely\na Protestant country,", "start": 1950.26, "duration": 4.1}, {"text": "so it means--", "start": 1954.36, "duration": 1.095}, {"text": "there's nothing wrong\nwith that, obviously.", "start": 1955.455, "duration": 1.935}, {"text": "But it means that you are\nmore likely to be here,", "start": 1957.39, "duration": 3.09}, {"text": "everything is more\nindividualistic,", "start": 1960.48, "duration": 2.55}, {"text": "reductionistic, science based.", "start": 1963.03, "duration": 1.89}, {"text": "Not so much engineering\nbecause you have", "start": 1964.92, "duration": 2.67}, {"text": "both of these things going on.", "start": 1967.59, "duration": 2.4}, {"text": "In addition to which, they\nstill have this remnant", "start": 1969.99, "duration": 2.94}, {"text": "of the hierarchy from the Middle\nAges because of aristocracy.", "start": 1972.93, "duration": 4.32}, {"text": "So they don't have\nthe mode of thought,", "start": 1977.25, "duration": 2.1}, {"text": "but they have this thing--", "start": 1979.35, "duration": 4.6}, {"text": "really problematic.", "start": 1983.95, "duration": 1.5}, {"text": "And so what happened in the\nautomobile industry in England?", "start": 1985.45, "duration": 3.77}, {"text": "It got bought out.", "start": 1989.22, "duration": 2.66}, {"text": "I mean Ford owns--", "start": 1991.88, "duration": 1.26}, {"text": "they own Jaguar.", "start": 1996.395, "duration": 1.575}, {"text": "The Germans own Land\nRover or something.", "start": 1997.97, "duration": 4.83}, {"text": "Mercedes owns one\nof the companies.", "start": 2002.8, "duration": 2.19}, {"text": "So basically,\nthere's nothing left.", "start": 2004.99, "duration": 1.878}, {"text": "I mean, they just\nlost out completely", "start": 2006.868, "duration": 1.542}, {"text": "on the automobile part.", "start": 2008.41, "duration": 0.99}, {"text": "So they have just as many\nsmart people, tinkerers people", "start": 2013.51, "duration": 3.75}, {"text": "come up with ideas.", "start": 2017.26, "duration": 1.59}, {"text": "But when it comes down\nto a sizable business,", "start": 2018.85, "duration": 2.43}, {"text": "then you run into this issue of,\nwe better get a lord in there.", "start": 2021.28, "duration": 3.42}, {"text": "And it doesn't necessarily\nwork very well.", "start": 2024.7, "duration": 3.04}, {"text": "So obviously, they do very\nwell in certain issues", "start": 2027.74, "duration": 3.14}, {"text": "like insurance and variety\nof other kinds of things.", "start": 2030.88, "duration": 2.8}, {"text": "But when it comes\ndown to things that", "start": 2033.68, "duration": 2.33}, {"text": "require depth of\nengineering and large scale,", "start": 2036.01, "duration": 4.65}, {"text": "they have really done poorly.", "start": 2040.66, "duration": 1.89}, {"text": "So the US gets much of\nits philosophy, at least,", "start": 2048.54, "duration": 4.31}, {"text": "from Britain.", "start": 2052.85, "duration": 1.74}, {"text": "So to some degree, engineering\nis not as highly valued", "start": 2054.59, "duration": 3.45}, {"text": "as doctor, lawyer, MBA.", "start": 2058.04, "duration": 2.67}, {"text": "But we do better\nthan the British", "start": 2060.71, "duration": 1.949}, {"text": "because we don't have a\nclass structure mentality.", "start": 2062.659, "duration": 2.52}, {"text": "And many of our\ntechnological firms", "start": 2065.179, "duration": 3.361}, {"text": "are run by their\nfounders, at least,", "start": 2068.54, "duration": 1.5}, {"text": "initially and others\nwho may have an MBA.", "start": 2070.04, "duration": 2.76}, {"text": "But they appreciate the\ntechnology to a large degree,", "start": 2072.8, "duration": 4.71}, {"text": "and so we do better.", "start": 2077.51, "duration": 3.27}, {"text": "Now we do even better?", "start": 2080.78, "duration": 1.737}, {"text": "I think the answer is yes.", "start": 2082.517, "duration": 1.083}, {"text": "But it's not going to be\neasy to make the transition.", "start": 2083.6, "duration": 2.22}, {"text": "So I've taken you to here, 1300.", "start": 2089.389, "duration": 6.6}, {"text": "People realized that there was\na conflict between those two.", "start": 2095.989, "duration": 2.641}, {"text": "Because Aristotle\nwas rediscovered", "start": 2098.63, "duration": 3.14}, {"text": "and the university professors\nsaid, now, wait a minute.", "start": 2101.77, "duration": 4.72}, {"text": "These different\nmodes of thought.", "start": 2106.49, "duration": 2.95}, {"text": "So there became a controversy.", "start": 2109.44, "duration": 2.325}, {"text": "It was called the nominalism\nversus realism controversy.", "start": 2111.765, "duration": 12.215}, {"text": "You ever hear that term?", "start": 2123.98, "duration": 2.69}, {"text": "About somewhere in the\n1300s, I would guess.", "start": 2126.67, "duration": 4.38}, {"text": "Now which one of these\nguys, Plato or Aristotle,", "start": 2131.05, "duration": 6.99}, {"text": "is likely to be the realist?", "start": 2138.04, "duration": 1.515}, {"text": "A-ha.", "start": 2144.54, "duration": 1.28}, {"text": "Trick question.", "start": 2145.82, "duration": 2.14}, {"text": "It's Plato.", "start": 2147.96, "duration": 1.38}, {"text": "So let me explain what\nthe issue here is.", "start": 2149.34, "duration": 3.74}, {"text": "Lambda calculus.", "start": 2153.08, "duration": 0.705}, {"text": "The meaning of a name in\nlambda calculus is nothing.", "start": 2157.76, "duration": 5.81}, {"text": "X is an X. It could\njust as well be", "start": 2163.57, "duration": 1.8}, {"text": "a Y. That's the Aristotelian\nposition in the 14th century,", "start": 2165.37, "duration": 6.9}, {"text": "nominalism.", "start": 2172.27, "duration": 1.8}, {"text": "Names don't mean anything.", "start": 2174.07, "duration": 3.19}, {"text": "Realism says, the\nname might tell you", "start": 2177.26, "duration": 3.57}, {"text": "something about the person or\nbut the future of this person.", "start": 2180.83, "duration": 6.2}, {"text": "Boy, names mean a lot.", "start": 2187.03, "duration": 2.43}, {"text": "They convey the reality\nof the situation.", "start": 2189.46, "duration": 3.96}, {"text": "They get at the essence\nof the person, maybe.", "start": 2193.42, "duration": 2.16}, {"text": "Plato.", "start": 2198.99, "duration": 2.8}, {"text": "A chair isn't just a chair.", "start": 2201.79, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "Think of Shakespeare, a rose\nis a rose by any other name,", "start": 2204.04, "duration": 2.61}, {"text": "nominalist position.", "start": 2206.65, "duration": 2.31}, {"text": "A chair is a representative\nof the ideal chair in heaven.", "start": 2208.96, "duration": 6.625}, {"text": "The fact that it's a\nchair means that there's", "start": 2215.585, "duration": 1.875}, {"text": "a direct correspondence\nto the ideal.", "start": 2217.46, "duration": 1.95}, {"text": "This thing is a copy.", "start": 2219.41, "duration": 1.17}, {"text": "It's not as good,\nbut it's a chair.", "start": 2220.58, "duration": 3.15}, {"text": "It has some chairness to it.", "start": 2223.73, "duration": 3.47}, {"text": "So once I learned that the\ncorrespondent named chair", "start": 2227.2, "duration": 3.06}, {"text": "to the chairness of a\nthing that's a chair,", "start": 2230.26, "duration": 3.24}, {"text": "there's reality\nattached to the name.", "start": 2233.5, "duration": 2.55}, {"text": "I wouldn't say that\nAristotle and Plato would", "start": 2238.855, "duration": 1.875}, {"text": "argue quite this way in 400 BC.", "start": 2240.73, "duration": 2.76}, {"text": "But in 1400 BC, the professors\nare getting this way", "start": 2243.49, "duration": 5.73}, {"text": "as their descendants,\nif you will--", "start": 2249.22, "duration": 2.04}, {"text": "intellectual descendants.", "start": 2251.26, "duration": 1.53}, {"text": "This was a big issue and\nit shows up in the Bible", "start": 2252.79, "duration": 4.26}, {"text": "when Moses says to\nGod, now, if you're", "start": 2257.05, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "going to send me down\nto Pharaoh, what should", "start": 2259.3, "duration": 2.13}, {"text": "I tell him and the Jewish--", "start": 2261.43, "duration": 1.99}, {"text": "the other Hebrews,\nwhat's your name?", "start": 2263.42, "duration": 3.62}, {"text": "And boy, you\nremember the answer?", "start": 2267.04, "duration": 2.01}, {"text": "What a weird answer.", "start": 2269.05, "duration": 2.83}, {"text": "I am that I am.", "start": 2271.88, "duration": 2.192}, {"text": "Is that a name?", "start": 2274.072, "duration": 2.058}, {"text": "No.", "start": 2276.13, "duration": 0.98}, {"text": "There's somebody who doesn't\nwant to tell you the name", "start": 2277.11, "duration": 4.22}, {"text": "because the name would reveal\ntoo much of the essence.", "start": 2281.33, "duration": 3.72}, {"text": "And this is in essence it's\nindescribable, has no limit.", "start": 2285.05, "duration": 4.06}, {"text": "Therefore, attaching a name\nto it is too restrictive.", "start": 2289.11, "duration": 4.52}, {"text": "This is a person who\nbelieves that name really", "start": 2296.16, "duration": 2.33}, {"text": "represents reality of a kind.", "start": 2298.49, "duration": 3.51}, {"text": "Therefore, don't get--", "start": 2302.0, "duration": 1.8}, {"text": "God, no name.", "start": 2303.8, "duration": 2.79}, {"text": "Be careful with the name.", "start": 2306.59, "duration": 1.2}, {"text": "Be very careful.", "start": 2307.79, "duration": 0.93}, {"text": "It really is circumscribing\nto much, this notion.", "start": 2308.72, "duration": 5.09}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: That brings\nto mind, since we", "start": 2313.81, "duration": 2.15}, {"text": "can talk about\nfilms in this class,", "start": 2315.96, "duration": 1.48}, {"text": "I don't know if you're familiar\nwith this film called Pi.", "start": 2317.44, "duration": 3.176}, {"text": "Yeah?", "start": 2320.616, "duration": 1.864}, {"text": "But it's a young\nmathematician, a genius,", "start": 2322.48, "duration": 4.91}, {"text": "who is trying to figure out\nsome patterns in the number pi", "start": 2327.39, "duration": 5.65}, {"text": "as you take it out.", "start": 2333.04, "duration": 1.392}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: Yeah.", "start": 2334.432, "duration": 0.708}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE]\nbeing able to predict", "start": 2335.14, "duration": 5.395}, {"text": "the future within it.", "start": 2340.535, "duration": 0.875}, {"text": "He's being accosted\nby all of these people", "start": 2341.41, "duration": 2.4}, {"text": "from the stock market\nand everything.", "start": 2343.81, "duration": 1.93}, {"text": "And he winds up with this\nrabbi who wants him to tell--", "start": 2345.74, "duration": 8.68}, {"text": "wants him to say that\nthere's a pattern in pi", "start": 2354.42, "duration": 5.58}, {"text": "after so many numbers,\nand then it repeats.", "start": 2360.0, "duration": 3.39}, {"text": "And it is the name of God.", "start": 2363.39, "duration": 2.55}, {"text": "Now I never understood\nthat part of the film.", "start": 2365.94, "duration": 3.7}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: So that brings\nup a different issue.", "start": 2369.64, "duration": 2.0}, {"text": "I wasn't going to bring\nit up, but now that you", "start": 2371.64, "duration": 1.958}, {"text": "mentioned this, I'll tell you.", "start": 2373.598, "duration": 1.412}, {"text": "So this is Moses\nway of thinking.", "start": 2375.01, "duration": 4.66}, {"text": "Abstract, don't bother\nme with details.", "start": 2379.67, "duration": 3.79}, {"text": "The rabbis actually\nlearned from the Greeks.", "start": 2383.46, "duration": 3.74}, {"text": "You see, Alexander the Great\nattacks the Middle East", "start": 2387.2, "duration": 2.7}, {"text": "around 322 BC.", "start": 2389.9, "duration": 3.18}, {"text": "So they come after that.", "start": 2393.08, "duration": 1.828}, {"text": "They're affected by the Greeks.", "start": 2394.908, "duration": 1.292}, {"text": "They won't admit it\nnecessarily, but they", "start": 2396.2, "duration": 1.68}, {"text": "effected by the Greeks.", "start": 2397.88, "duration": 0.958}, {"text": "They become ultra empirical,\nultra rational, logical.", "start": 2398.838, "duration": 6.482}, {"text": "Not so much\nindividualistic, but they", "start": 2405.32, "duration": 2.04}, {"text": "take on a lot of\nAristotelian kind", "start": 2407.36, "duration": 2.1}, {"text": "of way of looking at things.", "start": 2409.46, "duration": 2.55}, {"text": "And become even more so in\nthe case of my Maimonides.", "start": 2412.01, "duration": 3.88}, {"text": "When Aristotle's whose writings\nwere rediscovered by the Arabs,", "start": 2415.89, "duration": 5.12}, {"text": "he spoke Arabic and\nhe learned from them.", "start": 2421.01, "duration": 3.36}, {"text": "And he modified Judaism\nto become even more", "start": 2424.37, "duration": 5.28}, {"text": "logical, rational, rule based.", "start": 2429.65, "duration": 6.09}, {"text": "He has axioms.", "start": 2435.74, "duration": 1.23}, {"text": "He's got 13 axioms.", "start": 2436.97, "duration": 2.7}, {"text": "It's amazing.", "start": 2439.67, "duration": 1.38}, {"text": "But where do the Jews\nrediscover Aristotle?", "start": 2441.05, "duration": 6.91}, {"text": "Because they have.", "start": 2447.96, "duration": 2.54}, {"text": "And it comes back to\nwhat you were saying.", "start": 2450.5, "duration": 2.74}, {"text": "In mysticism, Kabbalah.", "start": 2453.24, "duration": 3.31}, {"text": "What's Kabbalah spend\na lot of its time on?", "start": 2456.55, "duration": 3.27}, {"text": "The name of God.", "start": 2459.82, "duration": 0.945}, {"text": "God is without end.", "start": 2464.04, "duration": 1.05}, {"text": "There's only one God.", "start": 2465.09, "duration": 1.35}, {"text": "And boy, if you only\nknew the name of God,", "start": 2466.44, "duration": 3.03}, {"text": "this would be so\npowerful a weapon", "start": 2469.47, "duration": 3.515}, {"text": "because you can\nget all the power", "start": 2472.985, "duration": 1.375}, {"text": "of the universe in your hand.", "start": 2474.36, "duration": 0.99}, {"text": "And you've got to\nbe very careful.", "start": 2475.35, "duration": 1.417}, {"text": "You can't do that.", "start": 2476.767, "duration": 1.313}, {"text": "You've got to shy\naway from that.", "start": 2478.08, "duration": 1.71}, {"text": "It's one of the key issues.", "start": 2482.34, "duration": 1.48}, {"text": "So to the extent\nthat mysticism, which", "start": 2483.82, "duration": 2.9}, {"text": "exists in every\nreligion on Earth,", "start": 2486.72, "duration": 3.87}, {"text": "is the closest analog\nwe now have in religion,", "start": 2490.59, "duration": 2.67}, {"text": "I would say, to\nPlatonic thought.", "start": 2493.26, "duration": 5.94}, {"text": "Not quite there, but it\ncarries some of the same ideas.", "start": 2499.2, "duration": 4.26}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: Do you think we're\ntrying to get that idea today", "start": 2503.46, "duration": 2.63}, {"text": "in the word icon?", "start": 2506.09, "duration": 2.1}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: I don't know.", "start": 2508.19, "duration": 1.59}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: Because it's\nsupposed to be that looks", "start": 2509.78, "duration": 2.65}, {"text": "like what it references.", "start": 2512.43, "duration": 2.1}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: Yeah,\nbut you see, think", "start": 2514.53, "duration": 1.5}, {"text": "of the mosaic commandment.", "start": 2516.03, "duration": 2.67}, {"text": "Do not make a graven image.", "start": 2518.7, "duration": 2.38}, {"text": "So if you want to\nhave God be abstract--", "start": 2521.08, "duration": 2.36}, {"text": "and the mystics do.", "start": 2523.44, "duration": 2.94}, {"text": "If you want God be abstract\nyou can't have a real icon.", "start": 2526.38, "duration": 4.7}, {"text": "That goes against abstraction.", "start": 2531.08, "duration": 1.62}, {"text": "And now you've\ngot it down there.", "start": 2532.7, "duration": 1.92}, {"text": "This is what God looks--\nno, no, no, no, no.", "start": 2534.62, "duration": 2.1}, {"text": "Can't have that.", "start": 2536.72, "duration": 1.41}, {"text": "Can't have that.", "start": 2538.13, "duration": 1.17}, {"text": "See Moses really was\nan abstract thinker.", "start": 2539.3, "duration": 2.91}, {"text": "There's one God,\nno graven image.", "start": 2542.21, "duration": 3.78}, {"text": "Be careful with the name.", "start": 2545.99, "duration": 2.64}, {"text": "Do not take the\nLord's name in vain.", "start": 2548.63, "duration": 2.07}, {"text": "I say, that's simpler than\nwhat people had in mind.", "start": 2550.7, "duration": 3.75}, {"text": "Don't ever use the Lord's\nname because then you", "start": 2554.45, "duration": 4.64}, {"text": "are attached to much specificity\nto this abstract notion.", "start": 2559.09, "duration": 8.48}, {"text": "So to continue the path.", "start": 2567.57, "duration": 2.73}, {"text": "This is 14th century.", "start": 2570.3, "duration": 2.58}, {"text": "In the 18th century,\nare Hume and Kant.", "start": 2572.88, "duration": 8.62}, {"text": "So let's say this is about\n1700 and this is about 1775.", "start": 2581.5, "duration": 6.57}, {"text": "A lot of things happen\naround 1776, it turns out.", "start": 2588.07, "duration": 5.01}, {"text": "What is Hume saying,\namong other things?", "start": 2593.08, "duration": 4.02}, {"text": "He's British, Kant's German.", "start": 2597.1, "duration": 1.98}, {"text": "And from now on, the\nBritish and the Germans", "start": 2599.08, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "are going to be\nfighting each other.", "start": 2601.33, "duration": 1.5}, {"text": "And they're fighting\nover this set of issues.", "start": 2602.83, "duration": 3.94}, {"text": "Hume says, a baby is\nborn \"tabula rasa\"--", "start": 2606.77, "duration": 3.66}, {"text": "I think he got the\nterm from Aristotle--", "start": 2610.43, "duration": 2.4}, {"text": "which means the baby\ndoesn't know anything,", "start": 2612.83, "duration": 3.01}, {"text": "complete clean slate, and\neverything is learned.", "start": 2615.84, "duration": 4.81}, {"text": "Everything is learned.", "start": 2620.65, "duration": 2.54}, {"text": "The biologist would argue.", "start": 2623.19, "duration": 4.76}, {"text": "Their claim would be, hey, these\ngenes really have an impact.", "start": 2627.95, "duration": 3.19}, {"text": "No, no, no.", "start": 2631.14, "duration": 0.58}, {"text": "For him, a baby, clean slate.", "start": 2631.72, "duration": 3.68}, {"text": "And that's the British view,\nwhich emphasizes logic,", "start": 2635.4, "duration": 5.7}, {"text": "rationality of that kind.", "start": 2641.1, "duration": 2.16}, {"text": "Kant comes in, and what's\nthe name of his famous book?", "start": 2643.26, "duration": 4.99}, {"text": "Critique of Pure Reason.", "start": 2648.25, "duration": 2.87}, {"text": "Because Hume is the\nultimate pure reason view.", "start": 2651.12, "duration": 6.04}, {"text": "You have axioms.", "start": 2657.16, "duration": 1.5}, {"text": "You have deduction mechanisms.", "start": 2658.66, "duration": 2.04}, {"text": "And everything\nfollows from that.", "start": 2660.7, "duration": 2.76}, {"text": "No, no, no, no, no, Kant says.", "start": 2663.46, "duration": 3.48}, {"text": "Pure reason doesn't explain the\nworld very well, or not enough.", "start": 2666.94, "duration": 4.86}, {"text": "And he believes in\nbuilt in things.", "start": 2671.8, "duration": 5.97}, {"text": "I forget exactly\nwhat he calls them.", "start": 2677.77, "duration": 2.91}, {"text": "What is Kantian categories?", "start": 2680.68, "duration": 4.62}, {"text": "You have built in categories.", "start": 2685.3, "duration": 2.73}, {"text": "So if you look at\ncognitive science nowadays", "start": 2688.03, "duration": 5.04}, {"text": "and you ask the question,\nhow does a child", "start": 2693.07, "duration": 3.6}, {"text": "manage to see things?", "start": 2696.67, "duration": 2.79}, {"text": "We know that they have\nbuilt in mechanisms", "start": 2699.46, "duration": 3.48}, {"text": "for seeing certain things.", "start": 2702.94, "duration": 1.35}, {"text": "There's a famous paper written\nby one of our colleagues", "start": 2704.29, "duration": 3.12}, {"text": "which says, what the fly's\neye tells the fly's brain--", "start": 2707.41, "duration": 6.658}, {"text": "is that what it is?", "start": 2714.068, "duration": 0.792}, {"text": "Yeah, I think that's what it is.", "start": 2714.86, "duration": 1.333}, {"text": "What the fly's eye\ntell the fly's brain.", "start": 2716.193, "duration": 2.567}, {"text": "And what they did was\nthey would put electrodes", "start": 2718.76, "duration": 2.76}, {"text": "into the fly's\nbrain and they would", "start": 2721.52, "duration": 2.85}, {"text": "see when things would light up.", "start": 2724.37, "duration": 2.34}, {"text": "And they would send\nimages across the field", "start": 2726.71, "duration": 2.91}, {"text": "of view of the fly.", "start": 2729.62, "duration": 1.05}, {"text": "And it turns out that if\nyou had something which", "start": 2730.67, "duration": 4.68}, {"text": "looked like this and it went\nthrough the field of view", "start": 2735.35, "duration": 3.87}, {"text": "of the eye and it moved,\nthen certain kinds of things", "start": 2739.22, "duration": 3.36}, {"text": "would light up.", "start": 2742.58, "duration": 1.2}, {"text": "You see, those neurons\nin the fly's eye I", "start": 2743.78, "duration": 3.96}, {"text": "we're looking for\nthings like that moving.", "start": 2747.74, "duration": 3.29}, {"text": "Because that could be a--", "start": 2751.03, "duration": 3.58}, {"text": "that could be something\nthat it could eat.", "start": 2754.61, "duration": 2.1}, {"text": "Now is this a fly's eye?", "start": 2756.71, "duration": 2.49}, {"text": "What the-- oh, I'm sorry.", "start": 2759.2, "duration": 4.8}, {"text": "It's a frog.", "start": 2764.0, "duration": 0.93}, {"text": "What the frog's I\ntells the frog's brain.", "start": 2764.93, "duration": 2.19}, {"text": "And what's the frog want to do?", "start": 2767.12, "duration": 1.53}, {"text": "Eat flies.", "start": 2768.65, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "So you see something moving\nlike that, that's a fly.", "start": 2770.9, "duration": 5.73}, {"text": "So this thing was\ntrained, built in category", "start": 2776.63, "duration": 3.3}, {"text": "to look for that kind of stuff.", "start": 2779.93, "duration": 2.16}, {"text": "And I don't know what\nwe are trained to do,", "start": 2782.09, "duration": 3.45}, {"text": "but the assumption that we\nhave built in categories", "start": 2785.54, "duration": 2.94}, {"text": "has a lot of truth here.", "start": 2788.48, "duration": 2.13}, {"text": "This is a more of a Platonic\nview-- not purely Platonic,", "start": 2790.61, "duration": 3.66}, {"text": "but more of a Platonic view\nthan an Aristotelian view,", "start": 2794.27, "duration": 3.3}, {"text": "which would say it's\nreally just logic.", "start": 2797.57, "duration": 3.94}, {"text": "It all follows\nfrom a few axioms.", "start": 2801.51, "duration": 2.22}, {"text": "And so when you\nsee Lord Russell--", "start": 2803.73, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "you may have heard Lord\nRussell, a famous logician", "start": 2805.98, "duration": 2.4}, {"text": "mathematician in\nthe 20th century", "start": 2808.38, "duration": 3.03}, {"text": "and the Cambridge\nprofessor-- say,", "start": 2811.41, "duration": 2.16}, {"text": "I can't understand\nthese Germans.", "start": 2813.57, "duration": 1.74}, {"text": "I mean, Kant, who\ncan understand him?", "start": 2815.31, "duration": 1.98}, {"text": "Of course, other\nphilosophers will say,", "start": 2817.29, "duration": 2.11}, {"text": "Kant's the greatest philosopher\nin the last 200 or 300 years.", "start": 2819.4, "duration": 3.92}, {"text": "But the British, especially,\nthe Cambridge school, just they", "start": 2823.32, "duration": 3.69}, {"text": "don't get it.", "start": 2827.01, "duration": 1.26}, {"text": "They don't understand it.", "start": 2828.27, "duration": 1.33}, {"text": "So this different mode of\nthought, which is my opinion,", "start": 2829.6, "duration": 3.45}, {"text": "goes way back to\nAristotle and Plato.", "start": 2833.05, "duration": 1.88}, {"text": "Different ways of\nthinking about the world.", "start": 2834.93, "duration": 1.95}, {"text": "Even though Aristotle\nwas Plato's student,", "start": 2836.88, "duration": 2.64}, {"text": "they didn't see eye to eye.", "start": 2839.52, "duration": 1.2}, {"text": "So what does this have\nto do with engineering?", "start": 2843.88, "duration": 2.462}, {"text": "Well, let me go back.", "start": 2855.21, "duration": 2.53}, {"text": "So I think Taft introduced\nthis as being a different way", "start": 2857.74, "duration": 6.23}, {"text": "of looking at engineering.", "start": 2863.97, "duration": 2.235}, {"text": "People who write about\nengineering philosophy", "start": 2866.205, "duration": 1.875}, {"text": "tend to emphasize what\nmakes engineering unique,", "start": 2868.08, "duration": 3.245}, {"text": "different from science,\ndifferent from mathematics,", "start": 2871.325, "duration": 2.125}, {"text": "different from social science.", "start": 2873.45, "duration": 2.48}, {"text": "Design, for example,\nmakes engineering unique.", "start": 2875.93, "duration": 3.37}, {"text": "Well, I want to argue.", "start": 2879.3, "duration": 2.55}, {"text": "I think engineering\nisn't that unique.", "start": 2881.85, "duration": 2.61}, {"text": "Because in a sense, everybody\ndesigns in a university.", "start": 2884.46, "duration": 4.83}, {"text": "So let's talk about\nwhat they design.", "start": 2889.29, "duration": 5.55}, {"text": "And philosophers care\nabout design issues.", "start": 2894.84, "duration": 2.8}, {"text": "But in a sense, this approach\nis systems engineering.", "start": 2897.64, "duration": 6.68}, {"text": "Take a problem, break it up\ninto pods, keep doing it.", "start": 2904.32, "duration": 2.862}, {"text": "Blah, blah, blah.", "start": 2907.182, "duration": 0.708}, {"text": "All the great American systems\nengineers think this way.", "start": 2907.89, "duration": 4.63}, {"text": "This approach is maybe more\nof the way mathematicians", "start": 2912.52, "duration": 3.6}, {"text": "like to solve problems.", "start": 2916.12, "duration": 1.08}, {"text": "Take a problem, abstract it.", "start": 2917.2, "duration": 2.04}, {"text": "Make it even more abstract.", "start": 2919.24, "duration": 1.83}, {"text": "Get it down to\nsomething so simple", "start": 2921.07, "duration": 1.56}, {"text": "that you can actually\nsolve the abstract problem.", "start": 2922.63, "duration": 2.76}, {"text": "And now specialized to\na particular solution.", "start": 2925.39, "duration": 4.42}, {"text": "Here, get it down to the\nsimplest thing, which", "start": 2929.81, "duration": 4.92}, {"text": "you can solve and back it up.", "start": 2934.73, "duration": 1.92}, {"text": "This one, no, move\nit up and then down.", "start": 2936.65, "duration": 3.87}, {"text": "No, no.", "start": 2940.52, "duration": 0.632}, {"text": "These guys say, no, no.", "start": 2941.152, "duration": 0.958}, {"text": "Down then up.", "start": 2942.11, "duration": 1.97}, {"text": "Different way of\nlooking at things.", "start": 2944.08, "duration": 2.81}, {"text": "And nobody is absolutely\nright all the time.", "start": 2946.89, "duration": 2.37}, {"text": "So let's talk about design,\norganization, et cetera.", "start": 2953.06, "duration": 4.88}, {"text": "So I claim design is of interest\nto every field in the universe.", "start": 2957.94, "duration": 6.44}, {"text": "Writers, composers, artists,\nobviously, architects.", "start": 2964.38, "duration": 3.09}, {"text": "Biologists nowadays.", "start": 2967.47, "duration": 2.73}, {"text": "Maybe physicist\nnot so much though.", "start": 2970.2, "duration": 1.83}, {"text": "I don't know.", "start": 2972.03, "duration": 0.66}, {"text": "I mean, they could\nsay, look, we're", "start": 2972.69, "duration": 1.665}, {"text": "not trying to figure\nout the nature of design", "start": 2974.355, "duration": 1.875}, {"text": "because we really only\ncare about one design.", "start": 2976.23, "duration": 1.95}, {"text": "How did God do it\nin the first place?", "start": 2978.18, "duration": 3.33}, {"text": "So design variation, which is\nthe interesting thing to me,", "start": 2981.51, "duration": 4.32}, {"text": "how do you maintain\nflexibility in a design", "start": 2985.83, "duration": 2.94}, {"text": "so you can make changes easily?", "start": 2988.77, "duration": 1.41}, {"text": "It's things that's not an issue.", "start": 2990.18, "duration": 2.04}, {"text": "Biologists care about\ndesign variation", "start": 2992.22, "duration": 1.86}, {"text": "because development and\nevolution, things of that sort.", "start": 2994.08, "duration": 2.94}, {"text": "But physicists, less so.", "start": 2997.02, "duration": 4.23}, {"text": "So bottom line, you have to\nlook hard to find a field which", "start": 3001.25, "duration": 3.51}, {"text": "isn't interested in\ndesign, and therefore,", "start": 3004.76, "duration": 3.45}, {"text": "has some relationship\nto engineering.", "start": 3008.21, "duration": 2.44}, {"text": "So the claim is\nthat legacy views--", "start": 3019.47, "duration": 2.6}, {"text": "and lots there are\ndifferent legacies.", "start": 3022.07, "duration": 1.98}, {"text": "We, as humans, have a legacy.", "start": 3024.05, "duration": 1.92}, {"text": "We're limited by our\nability to solve problems.", "start": 3025.97, "duration": 4.2}, {"text": "The phrase 7 plus or\nminus 2 ring a bell?", "start": 3030.17, "duration": 3.84}, {"text": "You've heard it, right?", "start": 3034.01, "duration": 1.38}, {"text": "But you haven't and you haven't?", "start": 3035.39, "duration": 2.88}, {"text": "So there was a psychologist\nhere at MIT 50 years ago,", "start": 3038.27, "duration": 3.16}, {"text": "his name was George Miller.", "start": 3041.43, "duration": 1.49}, {"text": "And he wrote a paper called The\nMagic Number, 7 Plus or Minus", "start": 3042.92, "duration": 2.88}, {"text": "2.", "start": 3045.8, "duration": 1.11}, {"text": "And The Magic Number,\n7 Plus or Minus 2", "start": 3046.91, "duration": 3.45}, {"text": "is based on experiments\nthat he did with people.", "start": 3050.36, "duration": 3.88}, {"text": "Now ring a bell?", "start": 3054.24, "duration": 1.85}, {"text": "And what do you think--", "start": 3056.09, "duration": 2.06}, {"text": "how many different\nthings you can remember?", "start": 3058.15, "duration": 2.01}, {"text": "It could be numbers.", "start": 3060.16, "duration": 0.91}, {"text": "It could be words.", "start": 3061.07, "duration": 0.86}, {"text": "How many different things\nyou could remember at a time.", "start": 3061.93, "duration": 2.43}, {"text": "And people can go\nbetween five and nine,", "start": 3064.36, "duration": 3.18}, {"text": "depending on the individual, et\ncetera, et cetera, et cetera.", "start": 3067.54, "duration": 3.46}, {"text": "So here is a legacy--", "start": 3071.0, "duration": 1.44}, {"text": "a restriction that we inherit\nas humans, assuming he's", "start": 3072.44, "duration": 4.19}, {"text": "right, of course.", "start": 3076.63, "duration": 1.59}, {"text": "And he seems to be.", "start": 3078.22, "duration": 2.95}, {"text": "But there are other\nlegacies-- other things", "start": 3081.17, "duration": 2.06}, {"text": "that restrict our\nability to do things.", "start": 3083.23, "duration": 1.91}, {"text": "One is the country\nwe were born in.", "start": 3085.14, "duration": 3.37}, {"text": "Maybe our religion,\ncertainly our education.", "start": 3088.51, "duration": 3.03}, {"text": "If we're trained as electrical\nengineers or civil engineers", "start": 3091.54, "duration": 3.15}, {"text": "or mathematicians, that'll\nhave a way of affecting it.", "start": 3094.69, "duration": 3.15}, {"text": "I'm certainly affected by having\nbeen trained in mathematics", "start": 3097.84, "duration": 3.54}, {"text": "because, remember,\nthis guy isn't", "start": 3101.38, "duration": 1.77}, {"text": "things like a mathematician.", "start": 3103.15, "duration": 1.95}, {"text": "That's a logician.", "start": 3105.1, "duration": 0.81}, {"text": "That's a funny kind\nof mathematician.", "start": 3105.91, "duration": 2.22}, {"text": "So let's look at\nmathematics, which I", "start": 3111.07, "duration": 1.68}, {"text": "a little bit about the history.", "start": 3112.75, "duration": 2.07}, {"text": "Especially in the 19th\ncentury, British mathematicians", "start": 3114.82, "duration": 3.57}, {"text": "didn't do well in\nthe 19th century", "start": 3118.39, "duration": 1.98}, {"text": "because there was so\nin love with Newton.", "start": 3120.37, "duration": 4.84}, {"text": "So what they did was\nthey went into the study", "start": 3125.21, "duration": 2.34}, {"text": "of differentiable\nequations, special cases,", "start": 3127.55, "duration": 2.53}, {"text": "the differentiable equations.", "start": 3130.08, "duration": 1.25}, {"text": "Even more special cases\nof solution differentiable", "start": 3131.33, "duration": 2.492}, {"text": "equations, this that\nand the other thing.", "start": 3133.822, "duration": 1.708}, {"text": "And they got stuck in\nthere and they really", "start": 3135.53, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "didn't make much progress.", "start": 3137.78, "duration": 1.29}, {"text": "And again, it shows\nthe empirical aspects--", "start": 3139.07, "duration": 2.46}, {"text": "it's special cases, empiricism\nare very closely connected.", "start": 3141.53, "duration": 5.22}, {"text": "On the other hand,\nthe Germans, who", "start": 3146.75, "duration": 1.65}, {"text": "I claim have this more\nabstract view of things,", "start": 3148.4, "duration": 2.88}, {"text": "they made enormous\nprogress certainly", "start": 3151.28, "duration": 4.05}, {"text": "by the mid-19th\ncentury in algebra.", "start": 3155.33, "duration": 3.54}, {"text": "Algebraic geometry, algebraic\ntopology, abstract algebra,", "start": 3158.87, "duration": 4.11}, {"text": "blah, blah, blah.", "start": 3162.98, "duration": 1.56}, {"text": "All of which\nemphasize abstraction,", "start": 3164.54, "duration": 2.35}, {"text": "which is a consistent with\ntheir content philosophy.", "start": 3166.89, "duration": 3.02}, {"text": "Which again, is consistent\nwith Platonic way", "start": 3169.91, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "of looking at things,\net cetera, et cetera.", "start": 3172.16, "duration": 4.23}, {"text": "And these guys want out in\nterms of most of mathematics.", "start": 3176.39, "duration": 4.1}, {"text": "Not all.", "start": 3180.49, "duration": 0.87}, {"text": "Certainly, logic--\nthe kind of stuff", "start": 3181.36, "duration": 1.98}, {"text": "that we study in\ncomputer science, logic", "start": 3183.34, "duration": 1.68}, {"text": "and combinatorics\nis more like this.", "start": 3185.02, "duration": 2.86}, {"text": "But the stuff we don't study\nin computer science that", "start": 3187.88, "duration": 2.51}, {"text": "is real mathematics,\ntopology, geometry--", "start": 3190.39, "duration": 3.72}, {"text": "well, we do a little bit\nof algebraic geometry.", "start": 3194.11, "duration": 2.16}, {"text": "Algebra.", "start": 3196.27, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "Even analysis tends to be much\nmore abstract, much more based", "start": 3198.52, "duration": 3.9}, {"text": "on these kinds of notions.", "start": 3202.42, "duration": 3.99}, {"text": "So I would say, by the mid\n20th century certainly,", "start": 3206.41, "duration": 3.193}, {"text": "most mathematicians followed\nthe German approach.", "start": 3209.603, "duration": 2.042}, {"text": "It doesn't mean\nthe German approach", "start": 3211.645, "duration": 1.535}, {"text": "is right for everything.", "start": 3213.18, "duration": 1.0}, {"text": "I keep saying, there\nis no right answer.", "start": 3214.18, "duration": 3.03}, {"text": "But let me tell you, you\ncan take this too far.", "start": 3217.21, "duration": 2.91}, {"text": "The French took it too far.", "start": 3220.12, "duration": 2.56}, {"text": "So one of the\nproblems you can run", "start": 3222.68, "duration": 2.61}, {"text": "into if you're\ngoing to be abstract", "start": 3225.29, "duration": 1.74}, {"text": "is to say, well, I'm going to\nmake lots and lots and lots", "start": 3227.03, "duration": 2.55}, {"text": "and lots and lots and lots and\nlots and lots of abstractions.", "start": 3229.58, "duration": 2.64}, {"text": "And I had the\nwhole power with 20", "start": 3232.22, "duration": 2.64}, {"text": "different-- actually in\nsoftware, we see this a lot", "start": 3234.86, "duration": 2.19}, {"text": "now.", "start": 3237.05, "duration": 0.86}, {"text": "If people building in one\nsoftware layer above a layer,", "start": 3237.91, "duration": 3.07}, {"text": "they go nuts.", "start": 3240.98, "duration": 1.26}, {"text": "The idea is to have relatively\nfew layers that really", "start": 3242.24, "duration": 3.69}, {"text": "add something, rather\nthan lots and layers that", "start": 3245.93, "duration": 2.76}, {"text": "add very little.", "start": 3248.69, "duration": 0.93}, {"text": "And if you're a logician,\nthen you buy into the notion", "start": 3249.62, "duration": 3.18}, {"text": "that abstraction\nis a good thing.", "start": 3252.8, "duration": 1.72}, {"text": "but if you carry\nit to the extreme,", "start": 3254.52, "duration": 2.15}, {"text": "then you will have\nso many layers", "start": 3256.67, "duration": 1.51}, {"text": "you just get lost completely.", "start": 3258.18, "duration": 1.46}, {"text": "You don't really say anything.", "start": 3259.64, "duration": 2.07}, {"text": "That's what happened\nin mid 20th century.", "start": 3261.71, "duration": 2.88}, {"text": "In France, there was a movement\ncalled the Bourbaki school.", "start": 3264.59, "duration": 4.9}, {"text": "The Bourbaki was one\nof Napoleon's generals.", "start": 3269.49, "duration": 3.33}, {"text": "They made up the name.", "start": 3272.82, "duration": 1.66}, {"text": "A bunch of mathematicians\nwrote under the name Bourbaki", "start": 3274.48, "duration": 4.61}, {"text": "And they read did--\nthey re-approved", "start": 3279.09, "duration": 3.77}, {"text": "a lot of mathematics\nthat was already", "start": 3282.86, "duration": 2.07}, {"text": "known from a fundamental\npoint of view of set theory", "start": 3284.93, "duration": 3.84}, {"text": "and logic.", "start": 3288.77, "duration": 0.84}, {"text": "And this had an\neffect, for example,", "start": 3289.61, "duration": 2.52}, {"text": "on education k-12 in the '60s\nand '70s when we did new math.", "start": 3292.13, "duration": 5.66}, {"text": "That was those guys in\nthe American context.", "start": 3297.79, "duration": 5.2}, {"text": "So Bourbaki was going to\nrevolutionize the teaching", "start": 3302.99, "duration": 3.62}, {"text": "and research and\nmathematics by redoing it", "start": 3306.61, "duration": 2.58}, {"text": "all from a very\nfundamental point of view.", "start": 3309.19, "duration": 2.11}, {"text": "Lots and lots and lots\nand lots and lots and lots", "start": 3311.3, "duration": 2.06}, {"text": "of abstractions.", "start": 3313.36, "duration": 1.53}, {"text": "And eventually, people\nsaid, this is nuts.", "start": 3314.89, "duration": 3.33}, {"text": "This is absolutely insane.", "start": 3318.22, "duration": 1.66}, {"text": "Get rid of those guys.", "start": 3319.88, "duration": 1.127}, {"text": "And they stopped doing it.", "start": 3321.007, "duration": 1.083}, {"text": "Don't go crazy\nover abstractions.", "start": 3327.94, "duration": 3.27}, {"text": "Some are good, too\nmany is too many.", "start": 3331.21, "duration": 3.3}, {"text": "So back to an issue I discussed\nalready, manufacturing.", "start": 3338.04, "duration": 5.02}, {"text": "I'll read it with you.", "start": 3348.93, "duration": 1.02}, {"text": "US Manufacturers\nin the 1980s were", "start": 3349.95, "duration": 1.92}, {"text": "very concerned over the\nability of the Japanese", "start": 3351.87, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "to manufacture cars more\ncheaply with higher quality", "start": 3354.12, "duration": 2.88}, {"text": "than the Americans.", "start": 3357.0, "duration": 1.05}, {"text": "The German produced cars\nwith greater performance", "start": 3358.05, "duration": 2.85}, {"text": "than the Americans.", "start": 3360.9, "duration": 0.93}, {"text": "Not necessarily higher\nquality or cheaper, but better", "start": 3361.83, "duration": 3.06}, {"text": "performance.", "start": 3364.89, "duration": 0.82}, {"text": "And so caught between those two.", "start": 3365.71, "duration": 4.31}, {"text": "Then we started looking\nat the Toyota process.", "start": 3370.02, "duration": 3.22}, {"text": "And I got to tell you a story.", "start": 3373.24, "duration": 1.32}, {"text": "There was a joint\nToyota-GM plant", "start": 3374.56, "duration": 5.03}, {"text": "in California called NUMMI.", "start": 3379.59, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "I don't know why it was called\nNUMMI, had some meaning.", "start": 3381.84, "duration": 3.45}, {"text": "And basically, an\nexisting GM plant", "start": 3385.29, "duration": 3.21}, {"text": "took over all the union labor\nthat they had in the plant.", "start": 3388.5, "duration": 3.57}, {"text": "And they retaught them,\nwith Japanese managers,", "start": 3392.07, "duration": 3.33}, {"text": "how to do things.", "start": 3395.4, "duration": 1.68}, {"text": "And the quality went way up.", "start": 3397.08, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "The production rate went way up.", "start": 3399.33, "duration": 2.47}, {"text": "And GM sent all their vice\npresidents to go in there", "start": 3401.8, "duration": 2.96}, {"text": "and investigate.", "start": 3404.76, "duration": 0.81}, {"text": "What did these guys\ndo with our plant?", "start": 3405.57, "duration": 2.88}, {"text": "They're working with us.", "start": 3408.45, "duration": 1.128}, {"text": "They did something.", "start": 3409.578, "duration": 0.792}, {"text": "It all works.", "start": 3410.37, "duration": 1.26}, {"text": "And I talked to one guy who\nhad seen the plant six times.", "start": 3411.63, "duration": 5.79}, {"text": "And he said, I don't\nsee anything different.", "start": 3417.42, "duration": 2.64}, {"text": "They do the same thing we do.", "start": 3420.06, "duration": 1.53}, {"text": "What is going on?", "start": 3421.59, "duration": 0.9}, {"text": "I mean, why-- I can't\nfigure this out.", "start": 3422.49, "duration": 2.41}, {"text": "So finally, he admitted--\nhe said, OK, OK.", "start": 3424.9, "duration": 3.8}, {"text": "Let the guys who run the plant--", "start": 3428.7, "duration": 1.86}, {"text": "the Japanese guy-- give me a\nthree-hour lecture as to what", "start": 3430.56, "duration": 6.11}, {"text": "they think is different.", "start": 3436.67, "duration": 1.68}, {"text": "So he finally, after\nsix visits to the plant,", "start": 3438.35, "duration": 2.49}, {"text": "when he didn't get it, OK,\ngot a three-hour lecture.", "start": 3440.84, "duration": 2.97}, {"text": "And then his eyes lit up.", "start": 3443.81, "duration": 3.03}, {"text": "It was such a different\nway of thinking.", "start": 3446.84, "duration": 2.23}, {"text": "He just couldn't see it.", "start": 3449.07, "duration": 1.79}, {"text": "Simply could not see it.", "start": 3450.86, "duration": 2.43}, {"text": "But once explained,\nit made sense.", "start": 3453.29, "duration": 3.79}, {"text": "So it was a different\nway of looking at things.", "start": 3457.08, "duration": 3.35}, {"text": "And we learn from them.", "start": 3460.43, "duration": 3.42}, {"text": "And I claim that the reason\nthat they were successful", "start": 3463.85, "duration": 4.16}, {"text": "is they looked at the production\nprocess in a more abstract way.", "start": 3468.01, "duration": 5.63}, {"text": "And that fits in with\nthe national cultural", "start": 3473.64, "duration": 3.45}, {"text": "of value, my claim.", "start": 3477.09, "duration": 3.06}, {"text": "In Germany, where quality\nwasn't so much the issue.", "start": 3480.15, "duration": 4.02}, {"text": "It was mastery of details.", "start": 3484.17, "duration": 1.74}, {"text": "The German mastery of details\nis a big deal of that culture.", "start": 3485.91, "duration": 6.675}, {"text": "Meister is what they call\nthem, meister, uber meister.", "start": 3492.585, "duration": 5.985}, {"text": "And that gave him the ability\nto do things better and better.", "start": 3498.57, "duration": 4.0}, {"text": "Some people actually claimed\nthe Germans lost World War II", "start": 3502.57, "duration": 3.29}, {"text": "because they were too wedded\nto this notion of mastery.", "start": 3505.86, "duration": 3.09}, {"text": "So they have all these great\nguys on their production plants", "start": 3508.95, "duration": 3.69}, {"text": "making tanks.", "start": 3512.64, "duration": 2.04}, {"text": "Well, each one of them makes\na slightly different tank", "start": 3514.68, "duration": 3.87}, {"text": "based on his way\nof doing things.", "start": 3518.55, "duration": 2.367}, {"text": "He won't listen to anybody else.", "start": 3520.917, "duration": 1.333}, {"text": "You make the tank this way.", "start": 3522.25, "duration": 1.89}, {"text": "So the Germans went into\nbattle against Russia", "start": 3524.14, "duration": 2.54}, {"text": "with a whole slew of tanks,\nwhich are fine and dandy.", "start": 3526.68, "duration": 3.93}, {"text": "Each of them worked very\nwell, until for some reason,", "start": 3530.61, "duration": 2.58}, {"text": "some part failed.", "start": 3533.19, "duration": 1.77}, {"text": "And they had a problem getting\nany parts because all the parts", "start": 3534.96, "duration": 2.64}, {"text": "were different.", "start": 3537.6, "duration": 1.75}, {"text": "Whereas, the Americans\nmade the same tank", "start": 3539.35, "duration": 2.37}, {"text": "over and over and over again.", "start": 3541.72, "duration": 1.56}, {"text": "And by golly, there\nwas no problem", "start": 3543.28, "duration": 1.8}, {"text": "with interchangeable parts.", "start": 3545.08, "duration": 3.08}, {"text": "Anyways, probably\nnot the only reason", "start": 3548.16, "duration": 1.9}, {"text": "they lost, but maybe\none of the reasons.", "start": 3550.06, "duration": 3.39}, {"text": "So we learned from the\nJapanese, who are still ahead,", "start": 3553.45, "duration": 2.82}, {"text": "as I said before.", "start": 3556.27, "duration": 2.05}, {"text": "And one of the things\nwe learned was wrong.", "start": 3558.32, "duration": 4.26}, {"text": "So one of the things\nwe thought we learned", "start": 3562.58, "duration": 2.12}, {"text": "is how to organize firms, which\nwe realized were hierarchical.", "start": 3564.7, "duration": 7.13}, {"text": "But as they grew, we\nallowed the hierarchy", "start": 3571.83, "duration": 3.04}, {"text": "to grow into many, many levels.", "start": 3574.87, "duration": 3.76}, {"text": "And so we said, no, no, no.", "start": 3578.63, "duration": 1.4}, {"text": "The way to understand\nthe Japanese", "start": 3580.03, "duration": 2.16}, {"text": "is they don't have\nmiddle managers.", "start": 3582.19, "duration": 3.67}, {"text": "Let's get rid of\nthe middle managers.", "start": 3585.86, "duration": 2.68}, {"text": "Well, what it really,\nto me, explains", "start": 3588.54, "duration": 2.91}, {"text": "is we don't understand\nmiddle management.", "start": 3591.45, "duration": 2.86}, {"text": "What's the role of\na middle manager?", "start": 3594.31, "duration": 1.67}, {"text": "Well, in the American way, a\nrole of the middle managers", "start": 3595.98, "duration": 2.34}, {"text": "to check up on people.", "start": 3598.32, "duration": 1.92}, {"text": "Are you doing what you're\nsupposed to be doing?", "start": 3600.24, "duration": 2.04}, {"text": "Are you screwing up?", "start": 3602.28, "duration": 3.0}, {"text": "Oh, that's not the role\nof a middle manager.", "start": 3605.28, "duration": 1.85}, {"text": "The role of a middle\nmanager is, is there", "start": 3607.13, "duration": 1.708}, {"text": "any way I can help you?", "start": 3608.838, "duration": 1.692}, {"text": "Can I teach you what it\nis that you need to know?", "start": 3610.53, "duration": 4.11}, {"text": "On the next project--", "start": 3614.64, "duration": 1.74}, {"text": "I mean, it's a\ndifferent attitude", "start": 3616.38, "duration": 2.79}, {"text": "toward the role\nof middle manager.", "start": 3619.17, "duration": 1.5}, {"text": "You can have fewer levels\nof middle management", "start": 3620.67, "duration": 2.79}, {"text": "if you recognize what\nthe proper role is.", "start": 3623.46, "duration": 2.79}, {"text": "But if you simply say, middle\nmanagement is just at waste,", "start": 3626.25, "duration": 3.36}, {"text": "just added fat,\nlet's get rid of it.", "start": 3629.61, "duration": 2.79}, {"text": "You're going to get run\nyourself into some difficulty.", "start": 3632.4, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "And I think many companies have.", "start": 3634.65, "duration": 1.77}, {"text": "So what saved us in the\n'90s is the line here.", "start": 3641.04, "duration": 5.1}, {"text": "The two problems.", "start": 3646.14, "duration": 1.2}, {"text": "Problem number one\nis that Japanese got", "start": 3647.34, "duration": 2.64}, {"text": "hurt by the real estate bubble.", "start": 3649.98, "duration": 3.28}, {"text": "In 1988 or '89, the\ngovernment of New Zealand", "start": 3653.26, "duration": 7.17}, {"text": "sold its embassy\nin downtown Tokyo.", "start": 3660.43, "duration": 5.11}, {"text": "And the value of real\nestate was so high,", "start": 3665.54, "duration": 1.92}, {"text": "they were able to zero\nout their national debt.", "start": 3667.46, "duration": 2.49}, {"text": "The value of the few\nacres in downtown Tokyo", "start": 3672.53, "duration": 3.96}, {"text": "near the Emperor's palace was\nequal to the assessed value", "start": 3676.49, "duration": 6.81}, {"text": "of California.", "start": 3683.3, "duration": 2.45}, {"text": "I mean, it was out of sight.", "start": 3685.75, "duration": 1.98}, {"text": "And did they have a bubble.", "start": 3687.73, "duration": 2.4}, {"text": "And then the\nJapanese don't allow", "start": 3690.13, "duration": 2.31}, {"text": "themselves to let the banks\ngo out of business readily.", "start": 3692.44, "duration": 2.85}, {"text": "And therefore, they just took\nyears and years and years", "start": 3695.29, "duration": 3.3}, {"text": "to get out of this.", "start": 3698.59, "duration": 1.11}, {"text": "And they're just starting\nto come out of it.", "start": 3699.7, "duration": 2.2}, {"text": "And so that helped the\nAmericans in the '90s.", "start": 3701.9, "duration": 2.48}, {"text": "They didn't have the Japanese--", "start": 3704.38, "duration": 1.71}, {"text": "the same Japanese\nto compete with.", "start": 3706.09, "duration": 1.77}, {"text": "And what hurt the\nGermans in the '90s", "start": 3707.86, "duration": 2.16}, {"text": "was reunification with East\nGermany, where the West", "start": 3710.02, "duration": 2.67}, {"text": "Germans had to\nsend a lot of money", "start": 3712.69, "duration": 1.86}, {"text": "over to make the East Germans\nappear a little closer", "start": 3714.55, "duration": 4.14}, {"text": "in terms of their economic\nstatus to the West Germans.", "start": 3718.69, "duration": 3.81}, {"text": "And so they got hurt that way.", "start": 3722.5, "duration": 2.41}, {"text": "On the other hand,\nnow, as you could say,", "start": 3724.91, "duration": 2.28}, {"text": "well, so we're doing\nfine against these guys.", "start": 3727.19, "duration": 3.27}, {"text": "But they're coming\nback is my argument.", "start": 3730.46, "duration": 2.82}, {"text": "But now everybody is worried\nabout China and India.", "start": 3733.28, "duration": 2.93}, {"text": "And it's not clear exactly\nhow these different modes", "start": 3736.21, "duration": 3.51}, {"text": "of thought and\nvariations on them", "start": 3739.72, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "are going to deal with the\nchallenge from a billion three", "start": 3741.97, "duration": 3.75}, {"text": "or whatever the number\nis of people in China", "start": 3745.72, "duration": 2.7}, {"text": "and the Indian challenge.", "start": 3748.42, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "I'm not predicting the future.", "start": 3750.67, "duration": 1.38}, {"text": "I'm just saying that this\nway of thinking about it", "start": 3752.05, "duration": 3.15}, {"text": "tends to clarify, at\nleast in my thinking, what", "start": 3755.2, "duration": 4.86}, {"text": "has been going on, even as\nrecently as a decade ago.", "start": 3760.06, "duration": 3.04}, {"text": "But in terms of predicting\nthe future, it's not as good.", "start": 3763.1, "duration": 4.04}, {"text": "End.", "start": 3769.675, "duration": 0.5}, {"text": "JON GRUDEN: I hope\nyou stay up there.", "start": 3774.168, "duration": 1.542}, {"text": "We got some more questions.", "start": 3775.71, "duration": 3.615}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: OK.", "start": 3779.325, "duration": 0.625}, {"text": "JON GRUDEN: Or comments.", "start": 3779.95, "duration": 1.35}, {"text": "Let's have a little\nmore discussion.", "start": 3781.3, "duration": 3.268}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: Could we hear a little\nbit more about the Toyota-GM", "start": 3784.568, "duration": 2.542}, {"text": "you said that--", "start": 3787.11, "duration": 0.57}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: NUMMI plant.", "start": 3787.68, "duration": 1.003}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: --the manager went\nout there and could see--", "start": 3788.683, "duration": 2.187}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: The vice president\nwent out there, yeah.", "start": 3790.87, "duration": 2.167}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: --three hours, and\nwhat were the differences?", "start": 3793.037, "duration": 3.531}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: He may not realize\nthe importance of things", "start": 3796.568, "duration": 2.292}, {"text": "like just in time.", "start": 3798.86, "duration": 1.71}, {"text": "I mean, things were\nbeing delivered,", "start": 3800.57, "duration": 2.55}, {"text": "but they got deliveries\nin GM plants too.", "start": 3803.12, "duration": 2.79}, {"text": "But the fact that\ntheir deliveries", "start": 3805.91, "duration": 1.59}, {"text": "were relatively few and\nspecialized to the cars just", "start": 3807.5, "duration": 4.68}, {"text": "now being worked on, maybe\nsomething he may have missed.", "start": 3812.18, "duration": 4.77}, {"text": "Now mind you, this is the guy\nwho came a year later here", "start": 3816.95, "duration": 3.15}, {"text": "and gave a talk at Kresge.", "start": 3820.1, "duration": 1.65}, {"text": "And he said, well,\nI got my MBA at MIT.", "start": 3821.75, "duration": 2.67}, {"text": "And then he had a\nbriefcase with him.", "start": 3824.42, "duration": 2.29}, {"text": "He threw out the\ncontents of a briefcase.", "start": 3826.71, "duration": 2.0}, {"text": "It was a bunch of books.", "start": 3828.71, "duration": 1.9}, {"text": "And he says, these are\nthe books they taught me.", "start": 3830.61, "duration": 3.17}, {"text": "Now, in the automobile\nbusiness, we", "start": 3833.78, "duration": 1.95}, {"text": "have recalls for\nthings that don't work.", "start": 3835.73, "duration": 2.31}, {"text": "MIT should have a recall.", "start": 3838.04, "duration": 2.4}, {"text": "And for free, they\nshould re-educate us.", "start": 3840.44, "duration": 4.34}, {"text": "He was a character.", "start": 3844.78, "duration": 1.93}, {"text": "So after he learned these\nthings, he saw the light.", "start": 3846.71, "duration": 4.08}, {"text": "The trouble is, I said earlier--\nand maybe you missed it,", "start": 3850.79, "duration": 2.46}, {"text": "Tony-- is that in some\nsense, it became a religion", "start": 3853.25, "duration": 3.78}, {"text": "after a while.", "start": 3857.03, "duration": 0.78}, {"text": "These are the seven\nsteps to heaven.", "start": 3857.81, "duration": 3.11}, {"text": "And we didn't realize the\nJapanese were constantly", "start": 3860.92, "duration": 3.37}, {"text": "tinkering with the\nprocess and they", "start": 3864.29, "duration": 1.68}, {"text": "were improving and improving.", "start": 3865.97, "duration": 1.29}, {"text": "And even the Germans got better.", "start": 3867.26, "duration": 2.85}, {"text": "I mean, what happened\nwas that of all", "start": 3870.11, "duration": 2.82}, {"text": "the firms, the worst performing\nin terms of quality and cost--", "start": 3872.93, "duration": 6.15}, {"text": "well, not so much quality,\nbut certainly cost--", "start": 3879.08, "duration": 2.16}, {"text": "were Daimler-Benz Mercedes.", "start": 3881.24, "duration": 2.31}, {"text": "And the president Mercedes\ncalled up president of MIT", "start": 3883.55, "duration": 2.375}, {"text": "in '88 or '89 and he said,\nyou can't publish that result.", "start": 3885.925, "duration": 3.715}, {"text": "You're going to be\nlike a laughing stock.", "start": 3889.64, "duration": 2.28}, {"text": "You can't tell me a Mercedes\nis the worst performing plant", "start": 3891.92, "duration": 3.6}, {"text": "on Earth.", "start": 3895.52, "duration": 1.23}, {"text": "Well, we published\nthe result anyway.", "start": 3896.75, "duration": 1.83}, {"text": "And this guy got canned.", "start": 3898.58, "duration": 1.07}, {"text": "And the new guy came in.", "start": 3899.65, "duration": 1.0}, {"text": "He says, I'm going to\nmake every vice president", "start": 3900.65, "duration": 2.12}, {"text": "of the company read that book.", "start": 3902.77, "duration": 2.86}, {"text": "So he got the religion.", "start": 3905.63, "duration": 1.35}, {"text": "And they all did because once\nyou show what the numbers are--", "start": 3906.98, "duration": 3.81}, {"text": "a little dose of reality--", "start": 3910.79, "duration": 2.37}, {"text": "it made a big difference\nin the automobile industry.", "start": 3913.16, "duration": 3.62}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: I read somewhere and--", "start": 3916.78, "duration": 1.67}, {"text": "maybe I'm thinking\nof something else.", "start": 3918.45, "duration": 0.93}, {"text": "We're talking about\nlean manufacturing?", "start": 3919.38, "duration": 1.64}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: Yes, it's exactly\nwhat we're talking about.", "start": 3921.02, "duration": 2.292}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: If you're on a\ncertain level of the hierarchy,", "start": 3923.312, "duration": 3.143}, {"text": "you don't move up?", "start": 3926.455, "duration": 1.383}, {"text": "Is that true?", "start": 3927.838, "duration": 1.69}, {"text": "Because if you're his friend\nand you do a certain job,", "start": 3929.528, "duration": 3.052}, {"text": "you do it really well, maybe you\nget a different kind of reward.", "start": 3932.58, "duration": 3.12}, {"text": "But you won't be promoted to--", "start": 3935.7, "duration": 1.8}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: So the promotion\nprocess, to remind you,", "start": 3937.5, "duration": 2.53}, {"text": "you don't have very many levels.", "start": 3940.03, "duration": 2.78}, {"text": "So one of the\nthings that happens", "start": 3942.81, "duration": 1.65}, {"text": "is promotions, if they\ndo occur, are slow.", "start": 3944.46, "duration": 3.45}, {"text": "Americans love to\nbe promoted fast.", "start": 3947.91, "duration": 3.6}, {"text": "I want to be promoted fast.", "start": 3951.51, "duration": 3.36}, {"text": "Two or three years on the\njob and I want out of here.", "start": 3954.87, "duration": 2.85}, {"text": "Leave all the mess\nto my successor.", "start": 3957.72, "duration": 2.73}, {"text": "So the Japanese move slowly.", "start": 3960.45, "duration": 3.99}, {"text": "Now in terms of promotion,\nwhat happens is first off,", "start": 3964.44, "duration": 6.24}, {"text": "they retire early,\n55, unless they", "start": 3970.68, "duration": 2.97}, {"text": "happen to be senior management.", "start": 3973.65, "duration": 1.65}, {"text": "Then they can retire\nat 60 or 65 maybe.", "start": 3975.3, "duration": 2.46}, {"text": "But 55 is a normal\nretirement age", "start": 3977.76, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "for so-called salaried workers.", "start": 3980.01, "duration": 2.04}, {"text": "And what happens is they move\nover to a subsidiary company.", "start": 3982.05, "duration": 5.7}, {"text": "And a subsidiary company\nknows that they better", "start": 3987.75, "duration": 2.28}, {"text": "hire some of these\nguys otherwise", "start": 3990.03, "duration": 2.52}, {"text": "they're not going to remain\nas part of the supply chain", "start": 3992.55, "duration": 3.36}, {"text": "as much.", "start": 3995.91, "duration": 0.75}, {"text": "So slower promotions-- not\nnonexistent, but slower", "start": 3996.66, "duration": 3.72}, {"text": "promotions.", "start": 4000.38, "duration": 0.63}, {"text": "Some people don't get\npromoted, but they", "start": 4001.01, "duration": 2.01}, {"text": "don't get demoted either.", "start": 4003.02, "duration": 2.07}, {"text": "They get given a chair\nfurther away from the action.", "start": 4005.09, "duration": 8.11}, {"text": "So in principle, everybody in\na given level at the company", "start": 4013.2, "duration": 3.56}, {"text": "is at a given level\nof the company.", "start": 4016.76, "duration": 2.16}, {"text": "But when you listen\nto people, you", "start": 4018.92, "duration": 3.03}, {"text": "listen only to a few of them.", "start": 4021.95, "duration": 2.1}, {"text": "The others can\ntalk all they want,", "start": 4024.05, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "nobody's going to pay\nmuch attention to--", "start": 4026.3, "duration": 1.95}, {"text": "everybody realizes that\nwithin this particular level,", "start": 4028.25, "duration": 3.54}, {"text": "all these guys who are 40\nyears old, two or three of them", "start": 4031.79, "duration": 2.91}, {"text": "are really the\nones to listen to.", "start": 4034.7, "duration": 2.67}, {"text": "It's a complicated game.", "start": 4037.37, "duration": 2.31}, {"text": "But again, very much\nrelated to this issue.", "start": 4039.68, "duration": 3.93}, {"text": "Whereas, the fast promotion, if\nyou have 20 different levels,", "start": 4043.61, "duration": 3.42}, {"text": "you want to go through,\n[SHUFFLING SOUND]..", "start": 4047.03, "duration": 4.41}, {"text": "And again, also\nthe salary ratio,", "start": 4051.44, "duration": 2.76}, {"text": "we worry about how high the\nratio is in the United States.", "start": 4054.2, "duration": 3.39}, {"text": "Several to one between a CEO\nand the lowest paid worker.", "start": 4057.59, "duration": 3.63}, {"text": "But maybe only a\ndozen to one in Japan.", "start": 4061.22, "duration": 3.27}, {"text": "I mean, it's a\ndifferent attitude.", "start": 4064.49, "duration": 1.68}, {"text": "And again, the attitude of,\nwe're all in it together.", "start": 4066.17, "duration": 3.12}, {"text": "We are the Toyota team.", "start": 4069.29, "duration": 2.64}, {"text": "And we are going to beat\nout, not only GM and Ford,", "start": 4071.93, "duration": 3.93}, {"text": "but Nissan and Honda.", "start": 4075.86, "duration": 3.21}, {"text": "On the other hand,\nwe're going to cooperate", "start": 4079.07, "duration": 1.92}, {"text": "between Toyota and Nissan.", "start": 4080.99, "duration": 1.65}, {"text": "We're going to cooperate on\nprocesses, not on products.", "start": 4082.64, "duration": 3.3}, {"text": "We're going to cooperate\non business practices,", "start": 4085.94, "duration": 2.675}, {"text": "on knowledge.", "start": 4088.615, "duration": 0.835}, {"text": "But not things\nthat are intimately", "start": 4089.45, "duration": 2.22}, {"text": "tied to our products.", "start": 4091.67, "duration": 2.05}, {"text": "So there is an attitude about\nwhat's to be cooperated on", "start": 4093.72, "duration": 3.259}, {"text": "and what's to be competed on.", "start": 4096.979, "duration": 1.59}, {"text": "And it is a very different\nway of doing business.", "start": 4098.569, "duration": 3.991}, {"text": "And it works some of the\ntime, not all the time.", "start": 4102.56, "duration": 3.419}, {"text": "Nothing works all the time.", "start": 4105.979, "duration": 2.178}, {"text": "You hear that?", "start": 4108.157, "duration": 0.583}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: Can I ask\nyou about your claim", "start": 4112.135, "duration": 2.795}, {"text": "that design isn't as\nunique as engineering.", "start": 4114.93, "duration": 2.766}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: Of course not.", "start": 4117.696, "duration": 1.083}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: Which I agree with.", "start": 4121.46, "duration": 2.189}, {"text": "But so then I wonder,\nhow do you think", "start": 4123.649, "duration": 2.491}, {"text": "about defining engineering?", "start": 4126.14, "duration": 3.87}, {"text": "I guess you would say\njust engineering is", "start": 4130.01, "duration": 2.67}, {"text": "closer than to what\nsystems philosophers do.", "start": 4132.68, "duration": 4.74}, {"text": "But [INAUDIBLE].", "start": 4137.42, "duration": 0.99}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: No,\nsystems philosophers", "start": 4138.41, "duration": 1.5}, {"text": "worry about all kinds of systems\nor organizational systems.", "start": 4139.91, "duration": 3.75}, {"text": "All kind of things.", "start": 4143.66, "duration": 0.869}, {"text": "What engineers\ntend to do is they", "start": 4144.529, "duration": 1.861}, {"text": "use their knowledge of math,\nscience, and engineering", "start": 4146.39, "duration": 4.53}, {"text": "science in order to develop\nproducts, processes,", "start": 4150.92, "duration": 4.0}, {"text": "systems for society.", "start": 4154.92, "duration": 1.828}, {"text": "There are certain kinds--", "start": 4156.748, "duration": 1.042}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: --specific purpose.", "start": 4157.79, "duration": 1.321}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: Absolutely.", "start": 4159.111, "duration": 0.958}, {"text": "Absolutely.", "start": 4160.069, "duration": 0.5}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: OK.", "start": 4160.569, "duration": 0.643}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: Absolutely.", "start": 4161.212, "duration": 0.958}, {"text": "But see, in a sense,\nso is design and music.", "start": 4162.17, "duration": 4.38}, {"text": "But the musician\ndoesn't necessarily", "start": 4166.55, "duration": 2.58}, {"text": "rely on his\nunderstanding of physics.", "start": 4169.13, "duration": 1.86}, {"text": "He doesn't rely on\nenergy as a variable.", "start": 4170.99, "duration": 4.96}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: That's\n[? definitely ?] strange.", "start": 4175.95, "duration": 1.75}, {"text": "Like, music isn't\nnecessarily constrained--", "start": 4177.7, "duration": 1.86}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: It's\nconstrained in some ways,", "start": 4179.56, "duration": 1.45}, {"text": "but not in other ways.", "start": 4181.01, "duration": 0.78}, {"text": "Let me give you an\nexample of constraint.", "start": 4181.79, "duration": 1.708}, {"text": "So I was taking music\nappreciation 101.", "start": 4183.498, "duration": 3.231}, {"text": "And a student got\nup in the course", "start": 4186.729, "duration": 2.401}, {"text": "and he said, Professor,\nI don't understand.", "start": 4189.13, "duration": 2.439}, {"text": "How did Mozart manage to\nwrite so many symphonies", "start": 4191.569, "duration": 2.21}, {"text": "when he was so constrained\nby the sonata form, ABA?", "start": 4193.779, "duration": 4.771}, {"text": "The professor's answer\nwas, because Mozart", "start": 4198.55, "duration": 2.49}, {"text": "was so constrained\nby the sonata form,", "start": 4201.04, "duration": 1.602}, {"text": "he was able to\nwrite lots of music.", "start": 4202.642, "duration": 1.458}, {"text": "Constraints can be good.", "start": 4208.09, "duration": 2.97}, {"text": "Constraints can be good.", "start": 4211.06, "duration": 1.75}, {"text": "So computer scientists\nactually have a problem.", "start": 4212.81, "duration": 2.64}, {"text": "They're not so\nconstrained by physics", "start": 4215.45, "duration": 1.91}, {"text": "and so they can try anything.", "start": 4217.36, "duration": 1.92}, {"text": "And boy, they bollocks it up.", "start": 4219.28, "duration": 1.41}, {"text": "They get overly complex\nsoftware without realizing it.", "start": 4220.69, "duration": 3.69}, {"text": "And after a while, they can't\nmake any further changes.", "start": 4224.38, "duration": 2.94}, {"text": "I'll give you an example\nof overly complex software.", "start": 4227.32, "duration": 2.55}, {"text": "So Jimmy Carter was president\nbefore you were born,", "start": 4229.87, "duration": 2.91}, {"text": "but I remember him well.", "start": 4232.78, "duration": 2.97}, {"text": "I'm sure Taft does too.", "start": 4235.75, "duration": 1.5}, {"text": "And he was not the smartest guy.", "start": 4237.25, "duration": 3.48}, {"text": "He was an engineer, so not\nnecessarily the smartest", "start": 4240.73, "duration": 2.7}, {"text": "politician.", "start": 4243.43, "duration": 0.58}, {"text": "Now one of the\nthings he decided he", "start": 4244.01, "duration": 1.61}, {"text": "was going to do because he\nbelieved in truth and all that", "start": 4245.62, "duration": 3.12}, {"text": "is he was going to\nallow people to call him", "start": 4248.74, "duration": 2.22}, {"text": "on the radio on\nSaturday afternoons", "start": 4250.96, "duration": 1.95}, {"text": "and ask any question they want.", "start": 4252.91, "duration": 2.05}, {"text": "So a lady called up\nand she said, well,", "start": 4254.96, "duration": 2.75}, {"text": "I get Social Security.", "start": 4257.71, "duration": 2.55}, {"text": "And Social Security\nhas updated, my check", "start": 4260.26, "duration": 2.88}, {"text": "is increased relative\nto inflation.", "start": 4263.14, "duration": 2.34}, {"text": "In those days, inflation\nwas quite high.", "start": 4265.48, "duration": 1.77}, {"text": "And it's done once a year.", "start": 4267.25, "duration": 2.67}, {"text": "Because inflation is so\nhigh, it would really", "start": 4269.92, "duration": 1.98}, {"text": "help me a lot if it\nwere done twice a year.", "start": 4271.9, "duration": 4.56}, {"text": "He said, OK, I'll look into it.", "start": 4276.46, "duration": 2.19}, {"text": "So months later, some\nenterprising journalists said,", "start": 4278.65, "duration": 3.0}, {"text": "whatever happened to\nthat lady's question?", "start": 4281.65, "duration": 2.94}, {"text": "And Carter had to own up.", "start": 4284.59, "duration": 1.62}, {"text": "He said, well, we\nasked the people at HHS", "start": 4286.21, "duration": 4.11}, {"text": "where they can do this.", "start": 4290.32, "duration": 1.18}, {"text": "And they said, well, if they\ntry doing that they couldn't", "start": 4291.5, "duration": 3.455}, {"text": "guarantee that the checks would\ncome out because the system was", "start": 4294.955, "duration": 2.625}, {"text": "so complicated, the ramification\nof that little change", "start": 4297.58, "duration": 2.67}, {"text": "could create such a havoc\nthat they dare not do it.", "start": 4300.25, "duration": 3.12}, {"text": "That's overly complicated.", "start": 4303.37, "duration": 1.845}, {"text": "A minute to go, guys,\naccording to that watch.", "start": 4310.34, "duration": 2.79}, {"text": "JON GRUDEN: Well, thanks again.", "start": 4316.63, "duration": 1.98}, {"text": "And next week, we\nare off Tuesday.", "start": 4318.61, "duration": 3.32}, {"text": "Is that right?", "start": 4321.93, "duration": 0.81}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: Yes, because\nTuesday's a Monday.", "start": 4322.74, "duration": 2.28}, {"text": "JON GRUDEN: Tuesday's a Monday?", "start": 4325.02, "duration": 1.68}, {"text": "OK, well, then first\nthing I need to know", "start": 4326.7, "duration": 2.31}, {"text": "is, what kind of\npublication rights", "start": 4329.01, "duration": 4.3}, {"text": "are you going to give\nus with these slides", "start": 4333.31, "duration": 2.43}, {"text": "since I've got\nthem on my machine?", "start": 4335.74, "duration": 2.35}, {"text": "Can we send them to the?", "start": 4338.09, "duration": 1.04}, {"text": "JOEL MOSES: Oh, absolutely.", "start": 4339.13, "duration": 1.9}, {"text": "JON GRUDEN: All right, then I'll\ntake responsibility for that.", "start": 4341.03, "duration": 3.45}, {"text": "I have a grading scheme.", "start": 4344.48, "duration": 2.68}, {"text": "And I'll be frank\nwith you, I really", "start": 4347.16, "duration": 2.88}, {"text": "don't want to put it in concrete\nuntil you talk about it.", "start": 4350.04, "duration": 4.33}, {"text": "Now I want to be able to reveal\nsome of my subconscious to you", "start": 4354.37, "duration": 4.75}, {"text": "before we do this.", "start": 4359.12, "duration": 1.21}, {"text": "You want to look at partly\na Democratic process.", "start": 4363.55, "duration": 5.37}, {"text": "And I emphasize partly.", "start": 4368.92, "duration": 3.285}, {"text": "And you could say what you\nthink is right, what you", "start": 4372.205, "duration": 2.125}, {"text": "think is fair, unfair about it.", "start": 4374.33, "duration": 2.38}, {"text": "The [INAUDIBLE],, what I'm\nreally looking for you to say", "start": 4376.71, "duration": 3.66}, {"text": "is, well, look, Dr.\nGruden, this latest scheme", "start": 4380.37, "duration": 3.27}, {"text": "here is not as tough as\nwe feel it should be.", "start": 4383.64, "duration": 2.88}, {"text": "We want a more\nrigorous class in here.", "start": 4386.52, "duration": 2.16}, {"text": "We want to do x, y, z.", "start": 4388.68, "duration": 1.45}, {"text": "I'm really looking for you\nto add something to this.", "start": 4390.13, "duration": 3.35}, {"text": "You don't have to do that.", "start": 4393.48, "duration": 1.495}, {"text": "But if you think\nsomething's unfair about it,", "start": 4394.975, "duration": 1.875}, {"text": "I want to hear about it.", "start": 4396.85, "duration": 1.07}, {"text": "And wherever I go\nfrom there, I want", "start": 4397.92, "duration": 2.76}, {"text": "to be able to say,\nwell, I heard from them.", "start": 4400.68, "duration": 2.52}, {"text": "They won't do it, but\nI heard from them,", "start": 4403.2, "duration": 2.1}, {"text": "if that's what it\nreally comes down to it.", "start": 4405.3, "duration": 3.19}, {"text": "Your next assignment-- how\nyou doing with this work?", "start": 4408.49, "duration": 3.52}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: Oh, gosh.", "start": 4412.01, "duration": 0.82}, {"text": "My book, something\nhappened with the mail,", "start": 4412.83, "duration": 1.75}, {"text": "but they're resending it.", "start": 4414.58, "duration": 1.042}, {"text": "I should get it in\na couple of days.", "start": 4415.622, "duration": 1.678}, {"text": "JON GRUDEN: OK.", "start": 4417.3, "duration": 0.42}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: So actually,\ndefinitely about next Thursday,", "start": 4417.72, "duration": 2.179}, {"text": "I would think.", "start": 4419.899, "duration": 0.371}, {"text": "JON GRUDEN: Oh, that far away?", "start": 4420.27, "duration": 1.25}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: Well, we can share.", "start": 4422.6, "duration": 1.235}, {"text": "AUDIENCE: I have\nyour email, so I", "start": 4423.835, "duration": 1.375}, {"text": "can [? work ?] on getting it\nin the next couple of days.", "start": 4425.21, "duration": 2.333}, {"text": "JON GRUDEN: Well, I\nhave another copy.", "start": 4427.543, "duration": 2.347}, {"text": "I'll loan you my copy.", "start": 4429.89, "duration": 2.35}, {"text": "I have, actually, an older\nversion in my office.", "start": 4432.24, "duration": 2.673}, {"text": "I'll give you the\nupdated version.", "start": 4434.913, "duration": 1.417}, {"text": "What I want you to\ndo is read two cases,", "start": 4436.33, "duration": 1.667}, {"text": "since we have so much time.", "start": 4437.997, "duration": 1.143}, {"text": "I want you to read\nthe Ford Pinto case.", "start": 4439.14, "duration": 5.28}, {"text": "And I want you to read\nthe Challenger case.", "start": 4444.42, "duration": 5.232}, {"text": "Next week, we'll start\nconverging on something", "start": 4452.89, "duration": 5.67}, {"text": "much more high quality\nwith the ethics.", "start": 4458.56, "duration": 3.51}, {"text": "And then we're going to\nstart putting the ethics", "start": 4462.07, "duration": 2.25}, {"text": "and the engineering together.", "start": 4464.32, "duration": 2.19}, {"text": "And my assignment for next\nweek-- for the following week--", "start": 4466.51, "duration": 4.07}, {"text": "will be turn in\nthe first analysis.", "start": 4470.58, "duration": 5.635}, {"text": "And I'll give you the\nformat, tell you how to write", "start": 4476.215, "duration": 3.255}, {"text": "and see what's done.", "start": 4479.47, "duration": 1.95}, {"text": "Once you get my methods\ndown, then we'll", "start": 4481.42, "duration": 3.51}, {"text": "start talking about\na little education.", "start": 4484.93, "duration": 3.09}, {"text": "You'll start doing it your way.", "start": 4488.02, "duration": 3.05}, {"text": "Also, you want to sign that you\nlistened and watched this film.", "start": 4491.07, "duration": 4.73}, {"text": "[INAUDIBLE]", "start": 4495.8, "duration": 3.47}, {"text": "OK, that's it.", "start": 4499.27, "duration": 2.03}] |