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Subject: More on promiscuity and word choice Re: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)

Robert Harley writes:
> >OK, then. Consider a population of 1,000,000. 500,000 men each
> >pair off with 500,000 women. Then, 1 man, let's call him "Wilt",
> >also has sex with the other 499,999 women
>
> This has never happened. Its relevance is nil.

It was a extreme contrived example because you glosded over the
point of the earlier 3-person example.

But OK, Mr Math, let it be N men and women, for any N>2. They
all pair off. Then, some number H, N>H>0, of men has sex with
all the other N-1 women he hasn't yet had sex with.

Pick any N and H that might be interesting. Any choice of
values results in meaningful differences between the sexes'
"promiscuity", as commonly understood. It should be more
obvious with extreme choices of numbers, but it is also true
for any choice of N and H, if unrealistic totals distract you.

Further, and I was hoping this would be clear without saying
so outright, this model actually approximates the cliche
"common wisdom" about per-gender sexual behavior, if you
reverse the male and female roles.

Those stereotypes are: that more men than women seek multiple
partners -- men being "more promiscuous" than women -- and that
surplus of male interest is satisfied by a smaller number of
hyperpromiscuous women (often derisively labelled "sluts").

> So I chose not to type "on average" explicitly in my post, since this
> is FoRK and one tends to assume that people have a clue.
>
> There is no disagreement between us, except that I am more interested
> in typical behaviour and you in extreme.

Nope, now you've amended the meaning of your initial statement to
make it more defensible. What I objected to was:

Robert Harley:
# >The assumption that females of all species tend to be less promiscuous
# >than males simply does not fit the facts, Hrdy contended.
#
# Well, DUH!!!
#
# It is perfectly obvious that (heterosexual) promiscuity is exactly,
# precisely identical between males and females.
#
# Of course the shapes of the distributions may differ.

If you assumed people on FoRK had a clue, would you have needed
to jump in with a patronizing "DUH!!"?

If you were talking about fuzzy, typical behavior, would you have
huffed and puffed with the words "perfectly obvious" and "exactly,
precisely identical"?

If your concern was with the "typical", why didn't you adopt the
typical definition of "promiscuous", rather than a straw-man
definition which allowed you to interject "DUH!!" and mock an
anthrolopology professor's conclusions?

> Actually, you probably just
> had a bad day and felt like jumping down my throat for the hell of it.

You are welcome to that theory!

But here's an alternate theory: when you jump in with a patronizing
and overblown pronouncement -- e.g. "DUH!!... perfectly obvious...
exactly, precisely identical..." -- and that pronouncement is
itself sloppy and erroneous, then others may get a kick out of
popping your balloon.

- Gordon


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Subject: Re: The case for spam

Political mail (the snail kind) doesn't bother me. I like it a lot of the
time, because as crap as it is at least it's not the kind of info you get
on TV. Particularly for small time local politics, it's the best way to
get information.

but what matters is that mail is speech, and political email has to be as
well protected as any other political speech. Spam is *the* tool for
dissident news, since the face that it's unsolicited means that recipients
can't be blamed for being on a mailing list.

http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork


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Subject: [Spambayes] timtest broke?

[Tim]
> I never used ConfigParser before, but I read that its read()
> method silently ignores files that don't exist. If 'bayes.ini'
> isn't found, *none* of the options will be defined. ...

Note that I since got rid of bayes.ini (it's embedded in Options.py
now), so search-path issues won't burn you here anymore. The intended
way to customize the tokenizer and testers is via creating your own
bayescustomize.ini. You'll get burned by search-path issues wrt that
instead now <0.7 wink>.


Subject: NEU IM HANDEL! K1-Ausgabe Nr.66

Es ist wieder soweit, die brandaktuelle
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Hier die neue Ausgabe Nr.66


Subject: Bugbear email steals card data

URL: http://www.newsisfree.com/click/-0,8597657,215/
Date: 2002-10-06T02:27:58+01:00

*Net news:* A devastating new computer virus is causing havoc around the world
as it crashes computers, distributes confidential e-mails and steals credit
card details.


Subject: [Razor-users] problems with hubris and/or discovery

trying to report spam [razor chooses hubris] I timeout on the connection
(which seems to have gotten slower all morning) and receive the following
error message:

razor-report error: connect4: nextserver: discover1: Error reading socket
connect4: nextserver: discover1: Error reading socket

I then try to run razor-admin -discover and receive the same error .....
problems with the servers today? only one discovery server?

Sven

-------------------------------------------------------
This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
Welcome to geek heaven.
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Subject: RE: The Disappearing Alliance

On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 06:48, Frank Bergmann wrote:
>
> A more reasonable explication of the EU - US differences (according
> to some American journalist cited in a German magazine, can someone
> help me?) is that the American public perceives the rest of the world
> basically as a thread, against which you have to defend yourself using
> power.

This is not a correct assessment. The American public couldn't care
less. However, the US intelligence community correctly perceives a
threat, and it isn't the third-world. Many European and other developed
nations aggressively engage in covert operations against American
interests. Its been going on for years and isn't even news. Things
have stepped up in recent years and the US DoD is none too pleased. For
better or worse, the US is relatively good at that game too. As with
most backwater wars, they are proxies for the interests of the big
players.

Find a current list of the top intelligence threats to the US. You'll
find that half the countries on that list are European. Most people are
unaware of how aggressive these things have gotten in recent years.

> On the other hand the Europeans are used to the peace of their cozy
> post-war system where external security is not an issue. All security
> threads can be resolved by giving money to the threatening people
> and to integrate them into the wealthy sphere (Balkan, Palestinians,
> ...)

Bullshit. The European governments ruthlessly suppress real opposition,
obviously some more than others. US SpecOps are often brought in to do
dirty work inside Europe for European governments (usually with
government "advisors" along for the mission). I've always wondered what
the deal was such that we got involved at all. The point being that
we've acted as assassins for European governments inside their borders
against their own citizens under the auspices of those governments, and
in recent years, not ancient history. I know SpecOp guys who left the
military specifically because of the circumstances of some of these
missions while they were posted for that duty. I'm certainly glad I was
never assigned missions in that theater, because there is a lot of
covert nastiness going on in nominally friendly European democracies.

Regardless, giving money to people that threaten you has never created
meaningful peace in the history of civilization. We call it extortion
under any other guise.

> A lot of the current EU - US issues can be explained by this difference
> of perception, such as the current American unilateralism (nobody wants
> to help us!), the American arrogance towards Europe (they don't want to
> do anything, so why should we ask them?) and the growing rejection of the
> American policy in Europe (they want to abolish the law!).

Europe is looking increasingly like a basket case. Whatever problems
the US is having these days, Europe looks worse and is going downhill
faster. Why the US would want to emulate European behavior or the
European way of doing things is beyond me.

The US asking for major policy advice from Europe is like asking a quack
for medical advice. I really don't see what is wrong with "unilateral"
anyway. Why should anyone join a stampede that is heading for a cliff?
I hope the incessant knee-jerk conformist screeching that Americans see
coming from Europe doesn't actually represent the views of Europeans.

For various reasons I'm not exactly a cheerleader for the US government,
but the premises of the argument against them here are lame.

> My personal point is that few Americans (percentage of overall population)
> have ever left their country, while even German construction workers
> regularly spend their holidays in Spain. So I'm not surprised that
> paranoia is growing.

I'm betting you are underestimating the actual percentage. The vast
majority of people I know have lived, worked, and traveled outside the
country at one time or another. And I doubt Europeans have traveled
anywhere near as much in the Western hemisphere as Americans have.
Despite the best efforts of France, Europe is *still* not the center of
the universe. I'll throw you a bone though: most Americans do consider
Europe to be drifting into irrelevancy and therefore ignore it. But
from the perspective of an American, how could you NOT look at it this
way? The impact of Europe on America has diminished greatly over the
years.

I love the smell of Euro-chauvinism in the morning.

First, you assume that the North American continent is ethnically and
culturally homogenous. Anybody that has actually traveled throughout
North America knows this isn't true; there are more than five major and
very distinct cultures and societies in the US alone, never mind the
hundreds of diverse regional sub-populations, some of which are truly
foreign. Apparently Europeans confuse speaking the same language with
having the same culture. That would be like saying Mexico is culturally
identical to Spain because they nominally speak the same language. A
Wyoming rancher has almost nothing in common culturally or socially with
your average person living in San Francisco, despite speaking the same
language and nominally living in the same country. If I want to visit a
wildly different culture for the holidays, I'll go to Oakland, New
Orleans, or similar -- they are far more different from where I live
than some countries I've traveled to. And a lot of these places are
farther from where I live than Spain is from Germany.

Second, the State I live in is the size of Germany. When I travel to a
neighboring State (which I do regularly), how is this not equivalent?
In fact, I probably travel much farther for the holidays than your
German construction workers. If you look at the EU as a single country,
only then does your analogy become comparable. What kind of ridiculous
superiority do Europeans get from having (relatively) tiny countries?

In truth, I find Europe to be about as culturally homogeneous as the
US. There are a lot of cultural similarities across the EU with
relatively minor local deviations that vary with distance in ways very
similar to the US. The only real difference is that Europeans have
dozens of different languages, which is hardly something I would call an
advantage. Although there are a couple parts of the US where I can't
understand a word they are saying either.

-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com


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Subject: Re: EBusiness Webforms: cluetrain has left the station

>>>>> "B" == Bill Humphries <bill@whump.com> writes:

 B> Yes, but this is what normally happened:

 B> Engineer: we can put ...
 B> Designer: there's a ...
 B> Creative Director: I want it in blue ...

Yup, seen it happen oodles of times, only all three of those folks
are one and the same person. The fourth is the business manager
who says "whatever, so long as you do it on your own time"

--
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
 "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)