Subject: Industry Forum #136

 The Industry Forum

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 The Industry Forum Issue #136

 10341 Forum Members

 #136-1: Dik M, PA
 It would be much more useful to the industry, if SPFA would help find a "CODE CONFORMING" fire barrier for attics, crawl spaces etc., than  lecture on Fast and Loose applications of code.  Something about 30 cents (a BD. FT.) installed, meeting All codes and spray applied. Many companies we talk to have a product that appears to be perfect BUT they haven't spent the money to test over foam. Maybe a small committee could do a evaluation of various products, report results to SPFA, who in turn will "acquire funding" from US.

 #136-2 William B, Australia
 we are in Australia but we are finding it hard to locate polyurea sprayers here so that we can start a chapter of the pda do u have any list of Australian contractors /suppliers ????or maybe they can put their hand up and lets us know at enviroline@powerup.com.au,  it is for the better of the game that an association is need to inform clients and specifiers of the uses and properties of polyureas and train its own members,also to keep cowboys out that give the industry a bad name

 #136-3 Ed M.
 I am a writer for aviation magazines and one that I write for is a Test International, a new publication that just launched this month. I need any new processes you might have that would be used on aircraft, particularly commercial aviation.
 #136-4 John C, Louisiana
 I have a Foam Cat 2000 Graco machine and a Probler gun with a 01 tip.  I use this setup to spray truck bed liners.  My question is can I and how do I spray foam insulation using my equipment?  And what are the different types of insulation?

 #136-5 Murph Mahaffey, Glas-Craft
 I like the new look of the Industry Forum!

 #136-6 Mark W, South Carolina
 I'm sick of all this garbage about covering foam with a "thermal Barrier". What the hell do you think foam is? If you are saying that anything that can be FORCED to burn should be covered with a FIREPROOF barrier, then you'd better get busy covering all those trusses and joists and plywood up there that are definitely NOT carrying a class one fire rating. This double standard for foam is coming directly from those who stand to lose business from it. Icynene is DIFFERENT.  IT DOESN'T BURN ALONE. IT DOESN'T MELT. IT DOESN'T EMIT PHOSGENE. Does it smoke in a fire situation? Sure, so what?
 Blaming foam in the attic for a house fire because it forces the foam to eventually burn is about as stupid as blaming foam seat cushions for burning when a gas tank ruptures and burns up a car. Get real, inspectors. You want us to cover up the only thing in the attic assembly that DOESN'T BURN!
 As for the vaunted R rating system, IT IS TOTALLY BOGUS. The test is designed to make porous insulations APPEAR to perform better than they actually do.  Measuring only conduction and ignoring convection and radiant to convective transfer, the test should have been thrown out for the industry lackey it is 20 years ago, along with that obsolete fiberglass garbage they're still selling everybody.  There's a reason they don't make refrigerators, freezers coolers & coffee cups out of fiberglass or cellulose.   Think about it.

 #136-7 Dirk Benthien, Forum Moderator
 Thank you, Mark and Dik, for your statements above. I also feel that far too often individuals and companies are too complacent and quietly live with rules and regulations without trying to change them  -  even if everybody knows they do not make sense. We are all experts and representatives of this industry and should speak up and promote change!

 #136-8 Martin S, Canada
 Does anyone make a dispensing machine for crumb rubber / urethane blends ?

 #136-9 Carole L, California re #135-8 Otto V, Germany
 What are the answers? (Phase-out of 141b)

 #136-10 Brian D, Canada
     There has been a lot of talk about ceramic coatings.  We are a distributor of such a coating.  We have never professed an R-20.  Reason = is there isn't an ASTM test available to measure coatings for R-value. We compare standardized insulation to Ceramic coatings via BTU loss calculations.  Depending on the criteria we can equal 2 to 3 inches of standard insulation with an aluminum jacket.  We have the data and the projects to prove it.
 #136-11 CPI
 We have inquiries from a number of people for used equipment - especially Gusmer H20/35, H2000, H2, GX-7 and Glas-Craft Probler. Please contact 805-552-9128. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 End of messages.

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Subject: MSN 8.0 on deck and on a roll, CyberSLAPPs explained (CNET INTERNET SERVICES)

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Subject: problems with apt update

Hiya, I always seem to get errors when I do an "apt update", is this a
problem on the repository itself, or on my end, or possibly a timeout in
the connection due to my connection being a crappy modem?

[root@spawn root]# apt-get update
Hit http://apt.nixia.no redhat/7.2/i386/base/pkglist.gnomehide
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/pkglist.os
Ign http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386 release.os
Err http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/pkglist.updates
 Bad header line
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386 release.updates
Err http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/pkglist.freshrpms
 400 Bad Request
Err http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386 release.freshrpms
 Bad header line
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/srclist.freshrpms
Ign http://apt.nixia.no redhat/7.2/i386 release.gnomehide
Ign http://apt.nixia.no redhat/7.2/i386/base/mirrors
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386 release.freshrpms
Ign http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/mirrors
Ign http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/mirrors
Ign http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/mirrors
Ign http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/mirrors
Failed to fetch
http://apt.freshrpms.net/redhat/7.2/i386/base/pkglist.updates
 Bad header line
Failed to fetch
http://apt.freshrpms.net/redhat/7.2/i386/base/pkglist.freshrpms
 400 Bad Request
Failed to fetch
http://apt.freshrpms.net/redhat/7.2/i386/base/release.freshrpms
 Bad header line

 -- \m/ --
 "...if I seem super human I have been misunderstood." (c) Dream Theater
 mark@talios.com - ICQ: 1934853 JID: talios@myjabber.net

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Subject: Re: DataPower announces XML-in-silicon

On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Rohit Khare wrote:

> DATAPOWER TECHNOLOGY ON Monday unveiled its network device designed
> specifically to process XML data. Unlike competing solutions that
> process XML data in software, DataPower's device processes the data in
> hardware -- a technology achievement that provides greater performance,
> according to company officials.

Now, to do this, we all know they have to be cracking the strong crypto used
on all transaction in order to process them... So this has some preaty heavy
implications, unless it's just BS.

> Kelly explained that converting data into XML increases the file size up
> to 20 times. This, he said, makes processing the data very taxing on
> application servers; DataPower believes an inline device is the best
> alternative.

Or.... you could just not bloat it 20x to begin with. Nah! (that was the
whole point of XML afterall, to sell more CPUs - much like Oracle's use of
Java allows them to sell 3x more CPU licenses due to the performance hit)

> In addition to the large file sizes, security is also of paramount
> importance in the world of XML.
>
> "Today's firewalls are designed to inspect HTTP traffic only," Kelly
> said. "A SOAP packet with XML will go straight through a firewall.
> Firewalls are blind to XML today."

Again, see above... they _are_ claiming to decode the crypto...

> "Our XG3 execution core converts XML to machine code," said Kelly,

Mmmmmmmmmmm, machine code, never a good idea ;)

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
 http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
 beberg@mithral.com


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Subject: [ILUG] Got me a crappy laptop

Hey,
I has just been given an old Toshiba CS100 with earliest pentium and 400mb
of HD but only a floppy drive on it, its got Win3.1 which is funny to see
again but gonna be cleared as soon as i stop messing with it. What I was
wondering was could anyone advise what O/S would be good for this, I want a
small usable *nix distro for it that i can transfer to it fom floppy.
Connecting this to Winblows>i know that winblows allows pier-to-pier
connections over serial and parellel ports to other winblows but is this
easy do for connecting winblows to *nix???

--
Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie
http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information.
List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie


Subject: Re: Python 2.2 site libs?

On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Mark Derricutt wrote:

> Anyone know where one could get rpms for alot of the python libraries for
> 2.2?
>
> Its darn annoying the way RH ship python 1.5.2 and python 2.2 (as python2)
> and libs that only work with one or the other :(
>
> esp. the pgdb and xml modules.
>
> Anyone know why Red Hat insist on sticking with python 1.5.2?

They want to preserve binary compatibility for all .x releases. Red Hat
8.0 has python 2.2 as default.

--
 - Panu -

_______________________________________________
RPM-List mailing list <RPM-List@freshrpms.net>
http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list


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Subject: [zzzzteana] Frog Fall at Cheapside

Near the end of his *Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the
Madness of Crowds* (1851), Charles Mackay discusses various catch phrases
briefly popular in mid-19th-century London. One of them, he observes,
"like a mushroom, seems to have sprung up in the night, or, like a frog in
Cheapside, to have come down in a sudden shower. One day it was unheard,
unknown, uninvented; the next it pervaded London."

Was "like a frog in Cheapside" (or something similar) a catch phrase
itself, or did Mackay come up with the simile on his own?

And to what event or events does it refer?

I didn't find anything relevant in Partridge's *A Dictionary of Catch
Phrases.*

bc

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 The 80 kg crates of carriers, carried on dabba wallahs' heads, hand-wagons
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 The system relies on multiple relays of dabba wallahs, and a single tiffin
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Subject: FW: [ILUG] Using Normal IDE Device with a Dell Latitude CPx lapto p

I vote usb 1.1 as the chances are the cdr drive is not over 8x write and
thus fireware is of no real use...
but i cant see how you are going to get it working without a cradle. I cant
even get my dell laptop dvd drive to work
as the connectors are not the same as my cd drive ones.. seems dell cant
keep any standards going :-(

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Kelly [mailto:longword@esatclear.ie]
Sent: 28 August 2002 09:32
To: ilug@linux.ie
Subject: Re: [ILUG] Using Normal IDE Device with a Dell Latitude CPx
laptop

John P. Looney wrote:
>>There is absolutely no way to use a conventional 3.5" drive with a
>>laptop directly.
> Ah, they told me that about my A1200.
>
> Worked a charm. Until I dropped the disk one day onto concrete.

Go on. Tell them how long the /first/ one lasted.

I vote external firewire if the laptop has the ports for it.

Paul.

--
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Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment

>>>>> "NS" == Neil Schemenauer <nas@python.ca> writes:

 NS> Writing an IMAP server is a non-trivial task.

That's what I've been told by everyone I've talked to who's actually
tried to write one.

 NS> Alternatively, perhaps there could be a separate protocol and
 NS> client that could be used to review additions to the training
 NS> set. Each day a few random spam and ham messages could be
 NS> grabbed as candidates. Someone would periodically startup the
 NS> client, review the candidates, reclassify or remove any
 NS> messages they don't like and add them to the training set.

I think people will be much more motivated to report spam than ham. I
like the general approach that copies of random messages will be
sequestered for some period of time before they're assumed to be ham.
Matched with a simple spam reporting scheme, this could keep the
training up to date with little effort. I've sketched out an approach
a listserver like Mailman could do along these lines and if I get some
free time I'll hack something together.

I like the idea of a POP proxy which is classifying messages as
they're pulled from the server. The easiest way for such a beast to
be notified of spam might be to simply save the spam in a special
folder or file that the POP proxy would periodically consult.

-Barry


Subject: Re: dumb question: X client behind a firewall?

----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph S. Barrera III
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 7:06 PM
To: FoRK
Subject: dumb question: X client behind a firewall?

Let's say you're behind a firewall and have a NAT address.
Is there any way to telnet to a linux box out there in the world
and set your DISPLAY in some way that you can create
xterms on your own screen?

- Joe

--------------------
I'm in no way a pro but perhaps you could set your Firewall to accept connections from that Linux box and then somehow set the Linux box to transmit on a specific port. Then configure your router to forward all information from that port to your box.

But then again, that pretty much defeats the entire point of a firewall =P.Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com


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Subject: RE: sed /s/United States/Roman Empire/g

> As I've said before, American
> Indian Reservations are quite
> possibly the only place on the
> planet where you can find trailer
> park shantytowns where every
> household is bringing in a
> six-figure income. I wish I
> could be exploited like that.

Like what, like the rare exception case you've raised or like the "on
average" case mentioned in the post you were replying to?

Max


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Subject: Re: Economist: Internet models, viral spread, social diseases

The structure of the Internet has never
been about where the ditches and ruts
are dug although the world needs
ditch diggers too.

It's a simple inductive concept:
You are you and see the world as such,
You plus 1 degree of separation is a new you.

All this stuff about scale-free Internets, viruses,
sex, and money is silly. Scale-free statistically
indistinguishable models really means Internet-Scale
as rediscovered by social networks people.

> Research has shown that the network of human sexual partners
 > seems to be scale-free, too

I tend to prefer the Harvard Business Review
to the Economist as they tend to spend less
time writing about who's sleeping with whom and
come up with real statistical models.

Greg

Lies, Damn lies, and statistics.

Russell Turpin wrote:
> Not exactly new bits, but I enjoyed seeing The Economist
> pick up on the similarity between computer and social
> networks:
>
> http://www.economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1365118
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>

--
Gregory Alan Bolcer, CTO | work: +1.949.833.2800
gbolcer at endeavors.com | http://endeavors.com
Endeavors Technology, Inc.| cell: +1.714.928.5476


Subject: [NYT] Korea's Real Rage for Virtual Games

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/09/technology/09KORE.html

Broadband's killer application  the one activity that dwarfs all others
is online gaming, which 80 percent of South Koreans under 25 play, according
to one recent study. Critics say the burgeoning industry is creating
millions of zombified addicts who are turning on and tuning into computer
games, and dropping out of school and traditional group activities, becoming
uncommunicative and even violent because of the electronic games they play.

"Game players don't have normal social relationships anymore," said Kim Hyun
Soo, a 36-year-old psychiatrist who is chairman of the Net Addiction
Treatment Center, one of many groups that have sprung up to cope with
Internet game addiction. "Young people are losing the ability to relate to
others, except through games. People who become addicted are prone to
violence, even when they are not playing.

- Jim


Subject: Problems with xosd-xmms

After installing and enabling xosd-xmms I get the following error when
trying to start xmms

Xlib: unexpected async reply (sequence 0x30)!

xmms starts, but it does not detect mouse commands.

Thanks,
Mike
--
D. Michael Basinger
dbasinge@speakeasy.net

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list


Subject: FW: Washington wire

A:link {TEX-DECORATION: none}A:active {TEXT-DECORATION: none}A:visited {TEXT-DECORATION: none}A:hover {COLOR: #0033ff; TEXT-DECORATION: underline}

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 Copyright c 2001
 ≡

OTC
 ≡

***


Subject: Play a Hilarious Phone Prank

Wind up your mates today! Please visit http://ukprankcalls.com


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Subject: Re: [ILUG] find the biggest file

Philip Reynolds wrote:
> Inn Share's [shareinnn@yahoo.com] 22 lines of wisdom included:
> >
> > Hi,all:
> >
> > Does anyone know how to list the biggest file in my
> > root directory?or the second biggest ..etc...
> >
> > Because I want to find out what is the reason cause my
> > root all most full.
>
> $ find /dir -name \* | xargs du -s | sort -n
>
> Smallest files are listed first with the largest at the end. So if
> you want to get the 5 largest files, pipe through tail.

Adding -r to the sort options, and piping through head instead,
might be a better idea. tail needs to read teh whole buffer, head
only reads the first n lines.

Cheers,
Dave.

--
 David Neary,
 Marseille, France
 E-Mail: bolsh@gimp.org

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Subject: [zzzzteana] Daft crimes etc

http://www.irishnews.com/access/daily/current.asp?SID=421083

Loo rolls of honour and the invisible man

Paper Clips: A round-up of the weekly press

By Steven McCaffery

The powers-that-be tell us that crime does not pay. And they found an
ally in the Ulster Herald this week, which carries a cautionary tale
for anyone thinking of embarking on a criminal career. The
Omagh-based paper's 'As the Man Says' column brings a story which
originated in the Middle East.

"A gent recently attempted to rob a bank in Tehran," the columnist reports.

"He was unarmed and began seizing bank notes from customers' hands."

It is then explained: "He had paid £625 to a local sorcerer and
believed that he was invisible."

In the Lurgan Mail there was also news of a dramatic robbery.

"A Lurgan newsagent has told how thieves drilled their way through
three walls to steal £10,000 worth of cigarettes recently in an
attack which was well planned and professional," the paper reports.

"The thieves broke through the back wall of a religious gifts shop
next door to the newsagents and then drilled through the partition
between the back hallway and the front shop.

"Moving statues of religious icons out of the way, the gang then
drilled into the back of the newsagent's cigarette stand removing the
contents."

The owner of the Paper Chase shop is pictured next to the gaping hole
left in his store and is quoted as saying: "On Monday morning when my
wife was opening, everything looked normal.

"But when she opened the shutters she found herself looking into the
shop next door."

The paper reports that the shop was the target of "another well
organised crime" 12 weeks ago when thieves escaped with a safe.

The shop's owner says: "The closer it gets to Christmas the more
people are going to be open to this."

The issues of crime and punishment are tackled by a columnist in the
Down Democrat.

Writing in the Downpatrick-based newspaper John Coulter calls on the
authorities to "birch the vandals" plaguing the local community.

He is shocked at reports of the "wanton destruction by vandals" and
issues a call for action.

"The time has come to fight fire with fire," he writes, "before
unemployed paramilitaries decide to impose vigilante rule and start
using so-called kangaroo courts to dish out their own brand of
sentences on those found 'guilty' of anti-social behaviour."

As an alternative to such reckless violence, he recommends,
controlled violence.

"It was a sorry day that the Manx authorities banned the use of the
birch as a weapon in dealing with unruly elements of the Isle of Man."

Getting his defence in early, he immediately rounds on any woolly
liberal who may oppose his plan.

"In many Islamic countries, public flogging of convicted criminals is
the order of the day.

"You might laugh and say there is little chance of such measures
being introduced in the United Kingdom or Ireland given that corporal
punishment was abolished in the vast majority of northern schools in
the late 1980s.

"However, people seem to forget that Islam is the fastest growing
faith on the British mainland and it's only a matter of time before
it numerically passes Christianity."
--
Joe McNally :: Flaneur at Large :: http://www.flaneur.org.uk
--
"I am the centre which exists only because the geometry of the abyss
demands it." - Fernando Pessoa
--
Currently playing: nothing.

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Subject: We Dare You to Find a Better Annuity

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Subject: Re: Apple Sauced...again

At 1:16 AM -0400 on 10/3/02, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:

> "The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be
> beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly you
> discover that there is no reason." -- John Cage

"When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only
how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not
beautiful, I know it is wrong." -- R. Buckminster Fuller

"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all
difficulties." -- Frederic Chopin

"Externalities are the last refuge of the dirigistes." -- Friedrich Hayek

--
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@ibuc.com>
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"The stoical scheme of supplying our wants by lopping off our
desires is like cutting off our feet when we want shoes."
 -- Jonathan Swift


Subject: [SAdev] [Bug 1052] New: bondedsender.com is a scam

http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1052

 Summary: bondedsender.com is a scam
 Product: Spamassassin
 Version: unspecified
 Platform: Other
 URL: http://www.bondedsender.com/
 OS/Version: other
 Status: NEW
 Severity: normal
 Priority: P2
 Component: Rules
 AssignedTo: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
 ReportedBy: friedman+spamassassin@splode.com

The default score for bondedsender-certified domains is -10, but I do not
believe they should be trusted and encourage you to change the default.

* I have been spammed by their customers.
* There is no documentation on their website about how I can complain about
 this and have their customers financially penalized for sending me unsolicited
 mail.
* What proof do any of us have that they really even do anything about it?
 Their contract is with their customers, not with us.

This is a scam! Don't trust them!

------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are the assignee for the bug, or are watching the assignee.

-------------------------------------------------------
This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
Welcome to geek heaven.
http://thinkgeek.com/sf
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Subject: Re: Mplayer

Matthias Saou wrote:

>Once upon a time, Roi wrote :
>
>
>
>>Since I upgraded to redhat8 mplayer -vo sdl isnt working for me
>>It gives me black screen and I only hear sound.
>>
>>can anyone help me with this ?
>>
>>
>
>I'll test this as soon as I can.
>
>
>
>>btw,
>>also the source rpm specified that I can do --without libdv
>>but it didn't work, worked for lirc and arts.
>>
>>
>
>Should be fixed : You probably had libdv-devel installed and MPlayer
>automatically detected it. The new spec file explicitely passes
>--disable-libdv when the package is rebuilt with --without libdv.
>
>Grab the "fr2.1" spec from here :
>http://freshrpms.net/builds/index.html?build=mplayer
>
>Matthias
>
>
>
The new spec didn't even want to build the package
something with config.mak
Also this new spec looks like the old one, it got libdv and libdv-devel
in the BuildRequires so I just used the normal spec and removed it manully.

Roi

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Subject: Re: Java is for kiddies

On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 03:19:13AM -0400, Eirikur Hallgrimsson wrote:
> My opinion is biased because of the disgraceful state of non-Windoze
> browser java implementations.

Horrors. Applets are kinda sucky. The cool kids are using Java to write
server applications, not browser craplets.

The giggle-inducing irony of the whole Java thing is how Sun's strategy
backfired. They produced a platform that was supposed to dwell on the
client side, where it would commoditize those clients. Instead, it turns
out to be the perfect language to write server applications in, and it has
successfully commoditized servers. Ooops!

--
njl


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Subject: Re: [ILUG] directory merging

John P. Looney wrote:
> I've two directories, that once upon a time contained the same files.
>
> Now, they don't.
>
> Is there a tool to merge the two - create a new directory where if the
> files are the same, they aren't changed, if they are different, the one
> with the most recent datestamp is used...

Just for the record mc has a nice directory
comparison function. This is really nice
when using the ftp VFS for e.g. Of course
if you use something like ftpfs you can use
the previously mentioned tools.

Pádraig.

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Subject: Save now

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Subject: Re: mplayer not working for me

Matthias Saou wrote:

>Once upon a time, Roi wrote :
>
>
>
>>oh xmms didn't work for me also
>>i used mpg123 i tought its something from me
>>
>>
>
>Nope, this is "normal" as Red Hat removed all mp3 support from 8.0 because
>of patent and royalty issues :-(
>On freshrpms.net, you can find the xmms mp3 plugin as I said, but also
>libmad, lame (mp3 encoder), and soon mpg321 as I often used it myself.
>Many other players can also play mp3 files, like alsaplayer, xine, mplayer.
>
>
>
>>like mplayer not working also and gives black screen
>>
>>
>
>This is not normal though...
>Try "mplayer -vo help" then try usinf various output methods to see if some
>do work or not.
>
>Matthias
>
>
>

mplayer works with dga (if i am root) and works with x11
and always worked with sdl (but not now with redhat 8)
now it gives black screen window and play the music of the movie.

Roi

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Subject: Impaired Risk Case of the Month

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Subject: [ILUG] Hayes Accura ISDN PCI

Does anyone know if this is supported under 2.4.18 kernels or higher?

I need to buy an ISDN TA quick, and PC World have these in stock for €65.

Thanks,
 David.

David Hamilton
Senior Technical Consultant
HP Ireland

--
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Subject: Re: Secure Sofware Key

> > Is the use of "trusted hardware" really worth it ?
>
> Answering that requires fairly complete knowledge of the business
> model. But, in all probability: no, it isn't usually worth it. So, it
> comes down to how difficult you want to make the cracker's job.
>
> > Look at the DVDs.
>
> IIRC, CSS was cracked by reverse-engineering a software player; and
> one where the developers forgot to encrypt the decryption key at that.

This make me wonder about the relative protection of smart cards. They have
an internal procession unit around 4MHz. Can we consider them as trusted
hardware ? The ability to ship smart cards periodicaly uppon cashing of a
monthly subscription fee would not raise too much the cost of "renting" the
system. Smart card do their own self encryption. Can they be used to
decrypt data needed by the system ? The input of the system could me mangled
and the would keep a reference of how long it was in service.

This sounds really feasible but I may be totaly wrong. I may also be wrong
about the safety of a smart card.

What do you think ?

--
Yannick Gingras
Coder for OBB : Oceangoing Bared Bonanza
http://OpenBeatBox.org